Developing Presence and Power At Work

Pallavi: 00:00:00

My formal coaching journey is very recent, about two years ago.

Pallavi: 00:00:03

But I guess the person I was becoming had been long coming.

Pallavi: 00:00:07

And like they say, our transformation just takes many years and lots of iterations.

Pallavi: 00:00:12

I grew up in India studied there.

Pallavi: 00:00:14

So obviously education and getting academically sound was a big sort

Pallavi: 00:00:19

of dream of my parents, let's say.

Pallavi: 00:00:21

And then I found that is the best way out to keep people off my back.

Pallavi: 00:00:25

Because if you scored well, you did well, then everyone then you were good.

Pallavi: 00:00:28

You could get away with stuff.

Pallavi: 00:00:30

I was clueless when I left school and college.

Pallavi: 00:00:33

It was like, what am I going to do next?

Pallavi: 00:00:35

So I did very well in my school and college, I topped, but pretty

Pallavi: 00:00:39

clueless, get started doing law.

Pallavi: 00:00:42

So I got a degree in legal studies, never practiced it for a day.

Pallavi: 00:00:46

And then I went ahead and built a career in shipping.

Pallavi: 00:00:50

In maritime, because at the time I was looking for legal departments of

Pallavi: 00:00:55

multinationals because multinational was the cool place to be.

Pallavi: 00:00:58

And I thought I should get there.

Pallavi: 00:00:59

And then then one thing led to another and I just Did my work as

Pallavi: 00:01:04

I did other things in life, which was, you just put your back into it.

Pallavi: 00:01:08

That was the only way I knew things.

Pallavi: 00:01:10

And I built a career from being an international trainee.

Pallavi: 00:01:12

And I grew into leadership roles with with one of the world's biggest

Pallavi: 00:01:15

shipping companies in the world.

Pallavi: 00:01:16

And it was a fabulous innings of my life because I got lots of

Pallavi: 00:01:20

opportunities to travel around the world.

Pallavi: 00:01:23

This little Indian girl coming out of a little Corner of the world

Pallavi: 00:01:26

where, and it was a whole world.

Pallavi: 00:01:28

You take an eight hour flight from Delhi to wherever.

Pallavi: 00:01:31

And you were, it was like being in a time machine because what

Pallavi: 00:01:34

you saw that was so different from what you were used to seeing.

Pallavi: 00:01:37

So a lot of cultural awakening, working with people, trying to really get ahead.

Pallavi: 00:01:43

And after over a decade in that company, then Out of the blue from

Pallavi: 00:01:47

nowhere, a cancer crept up in me.

Pallavi: 00:01:50

There was no family history.

Pallavi: 00:01:51

I was living a fairly healthy life, but I guess you've got to do your time.

Pallavi: 00:01:54

We've got to do our time in certain things.

Pallavi: 00:01:56

This was about 11 years ago now.

Pallavi: 00:01:58

So knock on wood.

Pallavi: 00:02:00

I feel I'm good now when people ask me the question, are you okay now?

Pallavi: 00:02:03

I still don't know how to answer it.

Pallavi: 00:02:05

Because what do you say?

Pallavi: 00:02:06

It was actually after I recovered medically from cancer, as I was coming

Pallavi: 00:02:11

back into life, then along the way I met someone and fell in love, the person

Pallavi: 00:02:15

I'm with now and we moved countries.

Pallavi: 00:02:18

He's a Brit.

Pallavi: 00:02:19

He's not Indian, but we met in India and then we moved countries.

Pallavi: 00:02:22

Went to Singapore work there.

Pallavi: 00:02:24

And that's when I transitioned from leadership to business development

Pallavi: 00:02:29

and that coming through with my personal growth after cancer and

Pallavi: 00:02:35

trying to come back into life.

Pallavi: 00:02:37

It was an interesting mix.

Pallavi: 00:02:38

It was a confusing because on one hand I was learning new ways to integrate

Pallavi: 00:02:42

back into society into my life after.

Pallavi: 00:02:45

After cancer.

Pallavi: 00:02:46

But on the other hand, I was also moving out of leadership where I didn't have

Pallavi: 00:02:51

any authority and speaking to prospects who were far more experienced than

Pallavi: 00:02:55

I was, who were far more knowledge experts than I was in that field.

Pallavi: 00:03:00

My job then became having to unlearn everything I had done professionally.

Pallavi: 00:03:05

And relearn stuff and then meet them at where they are, not just

Pallavi: 00:03:09

intellectually, so I can answer their questions, but also convince them

Pallavi: 00:03:13

and influence them to buy from me.

Pallavi: 00:03:14

This was a, this was quite a big game changer.

Pallavi: 00:03:17

And in parallel, I was listening to pods, I was reading books, I

Pallavi: 00:03:22

was trying to figure life out, you get all these questions, why me?

Pallavi: 00:03:25

What's going on?

Pallavi: 00:03:26

And it's hard to say any one incident that turned things around for me, but

Pallavi: 00:03:30

organically I was starting to make sense of life and really starting

Pallavi: 00:03:35

to understand the whole quality that makes life alive, which is aliveness.

Pallavi: 00:03:40

How do you show up with this whole degree of presence, which is not just

Pallavi: 00:03:45

an external confidence, but it is being aware of what your purpose in that

Pallavi: 00:03:49

conversational meeting is, but equally being intellectually sound and what

Pallavi: 00:03:54

you're going to talk about being prepared.

Pallavi: 00:03:56

Yet infusing the conversations with a degree of vitality, with

Pallavi: 00:04:00

a degree of friendliness, whether that deal got signed or not.

Pallavi: 00:04:03

The goal was to open a door from a cold call, open a door and then

Pallavi: 00:04:07

make the relationship happen.

Pallavi: 00:04:10

And I think it was just very interesting to me.

Pallavi: 00:04:14

It came very naturally to me.

Pallavi: 00:04:15

The professional in me had a lot of professional pride, the

Pallavi: 00:04:18

intellectual in me wanted to really not be caught out given my whole

Pallavi: 00:04:23

trust in academics back in the day.

Pallavi: 00:04:25

And that's how I realized how I could have been in places

Pallavi: 00:04:30

where I had a title as a leader.

Pallavi: 00:04:32

And now I didn't have a title as a leader.

Pallavi: 00:04:35

I was just a salesperson and I had to get the job done.

Pallavi: 00:04:38

And that transition kept growing.

Pallavi: 00:04:40

I moved from Singapore, we came to Greece, and then I've changed my subject

Pallavi: 00:04:46

matter expertise within maritime, but from one part of maritime to another.

Pallavi: 00:04:50

Coaching then was a way for me to deepen into human potential to really

Pallavi: 00:04:56

understand, can I access my potential?

Pallavi: 00:04:58

And I think I was also developing a bit of nuance around life.

Pallavi: 00:05:02

Like what moved things in a conversation?

Pallavi: 00:05:04

Why was someone getting iffy when they don't want to talk to me or

Pallavi: 00:05:08

what worked in this conversation and I was getting really curious

Pallavi: 00:05:11

about those pockets, those nuances.

Pallavi: 00:05:13

Coaching was just a natural fit.

Pallavi: 00:05:15

It was a pull.

Pallavi: 00:05:16

I didn't have to think too much.

Pallavi: 00:05:18

Should I make this investment in myself?

Pallavi: 00:05:20

I'm like there's something to be learned here.

Pallavi: 00:05:22

Let's do this.

Pallavi: 00:05:23

And this was the long back story.

Pallavi: 00:05:26

And then LinkedIn was a platform for me to launch myself.

Pallavi: 00:05:30

Really, the initial bit was create a checklist and see, can I do this?

Pallavi: 00:05:33

Can I be consistent?

Pallavi: 00:05:34

Can I post interesting content without chat GPT?

Pallavi: 00:05:38

Some of the very basic personal metrics.

Pallavi: 00:05:40

Can I reach out to people?

Pallavi: 00:05:41

Can I build a network?

Pallavi: 00:05:43

And I was like, hell, I can.

Pallavi: 00:05:44

And then gradually I Started to engage with LinkedIn in a way that was something

Pallavi: 00:05:48

I hadn't thought of sitting on the sidelines when I got into it, I was like,

Pallavi: 00:05:52

there are real people here and there are ways I can engage with them differently.

Pallavi: 00:05:56

I've gotten really good over time at sussing people out very quickly.

Pallavi: 00:06:01

I think, of course, there's a lot to be learned.

Pallavi: 00:06:03

I still make a lot of mistakes.

Pallavi: 00:06:04

But sussing people out depending on what they're saying, how they're saying it,

Pallavi: 00:06:08

what's the content of the conversation.

Pallavi: 00:06:10

And which enables me to decide quite quickly where am I going with them?

Pallavi: 00:06:15

Is this a go or no-go?

Pallavi: 00:06:16

So that's the long and short of the person behind the profile.

Rob: 00:06:21

Okay.

Rob: 00:06:22

That's fascinating.

Rob: 00:06:22

The first thing that comes to mind is now what you talk about is presence.

Rob: 00:06:27

You're able to express your ideas very clearly, you do it with presence.

Rob: 00:06:32

But what, when you're telling me that you've grown up was it Delhi or India?

Rob: 00:06:35

It was India.

Rob: 00:06:36

But you don't have an accent.

Pallavi: 00:06:37

I think I've lived in so many different parts of the world that I

Pallavi: 00:06:41

you just pick the accent where you are.

Pallavi: 00:06:43

And if you speak to a very British father in law, he'll tell you my

Pallavi: 00:06:46

accent still very Indian accent.

Pallavi: 00:06:48

So I guess it depends on who your listener is.

Rob: 00:06:52

That's curious to me because my my parents grew up in Ireland.

Rob: 00:06:57

I grew up in London and I went to a Catholic school.

Rob: 00:07:00

Where I grew up, Harrow was, I don't know why, but it seems to be like the first

Rob: 00:07:04

place for immigration for immigrants.

Rob: 00:07:06

So there was a wave of Irish West Indian, Indian, Asian Polish.

Rob: 00:07:12

So it's like you could see in the area I grew up, but because we, I was brought up

Rob: 00:07:16

a Catholic, so I went to Catholic school, so it's almost all at that time Irish

Rob: 00:07:21

but mum had lost her accent and she'd lost her accent because she'd come over

Rob: 00:07:24

at nine and you're double Dutch it's and so she was, she went through life very

Rob: 00:07:29

kind of combative and also defensive.

Rob: 00:07:32

She'd studiously worked to get rid of her accent, whereas my dad and a lot of the

Rob: 00:07:36

other people I was around hadn't so much.

Rob: 00:07:39

So it was interesting to me.

Rob: 00:07:40

So law wasn't necessarily your, love or was law something practical that you've.

Rob: 00:07:47

It seemed like a good career.

Pallavi: 00:07:48

It was actually, I don't know what to do, let's

Pallavi: 00:07:51

take some entrance exams.

Pallavi: 00:07:53

And I got through a lot.

Pallavi: 00:07:54

And this was in the back of a really late night party we'd had.

Pallavi: 00:07:57

Me and my best friend, we went for an exam the next day.

Pallavi: 00:07:59

And I made it, she didn't.

Pallavi: 00:08:00

I still tease her today about it.

Pallavi: 00:08:02

So I was like, yes I'm in.

Pallavi: 00:08:04

And for three years now, I don't have my dad on my back anymore.

Pallavi: 00:08:07

Like I've got something to do.

Pallavi: 00:08:09

So that's how law happened.

Pallavi: 00:08:10

There was no love at all.

Pallavi: 00:08:12

Yeah.

Pallavi: 00:08:12

Okay.

Pallavi: 00:08:12

And now I tell people I can barely spell the word LOE

Pallavi: 00:08:15

. Rob: Okay.

Pallavi: 00:08:16

So then the next.

Pallavi: 00:08:17

part that was clearly quite formative, I'd imagine is the cancer episode.

Pallavi: 00:08:23

That must be for many people, that's a changing point in life.

Pallavi: 00:08:26

Yeah, it's it's funny because when I put my marketing hat on,

Pallavi: 00:08:30

we all need that point, the lowest point where you start, but I think

Pallavi: 00:08:36

reality is a bit different in the sense that there's so many small

Pallavi: 00:08:39

organic things that keep happening.

Pallavi: 00:08:41

So after cancer, for instance, the medical treatment was over, but it

Pallavi: 00:08:46

was getting back to my workplace.

Pallavi: 00:08:48

My boss kept the same position for me for a year.

Pallavi: 00:08:52

I was away from work and he said, when you're okay, you come

Pallavi: 00:08:54

back into the same position.

Pallavi: 00:08:56

And I was incredibly grateful for that.

Pallavi: 00:08:58

But coming back and people's looks, glances, questions.

Pallavi: 00:09:03

And I guess your own sort of, confidence is shattered on multiple levels.

Pallavi: 00:09:07

I guess the point I'm making is that while the medical treatments over the emotional

Pallavi: 00:09:13

readjustment to life has taken me.

Pallavi: 00:09:16

I've been on the scenic route, as I call it, it's taken me joyously beautiful

Pallavi: 00:09:20

amount of time to start figuring life and looking at life differently.

Pallavi: 00:09:24

And now it was a long time ago and memories tend to fade and

Pallavi: 00:09:28

I'm also deliberately not trying to remember too much of it.

Pallavi: 00:09:31

But it changed my perspective in one profound way for sure, which is that I

Pallavi: 00:09:35

think about mortality pretty much once a day, twice a week, three times a week.

Pallavi: 00:09:41

It's not a taboo thing for me.

Pallavi: 00:09:43

And I kind of joke around because humor is hugely valuable

Pallavi: 00:09:46

for it's a big value for me.

Pallavi: 00:09:47

And I'm like, God's given me these second innings for a reason

Pallavi: 00:09:50

and I better not screw it up.

Pallavi: 00:09:52

I've got to do something good with it.

Pallavi: 00:09:54

But I think that sense of timing, that ability to say, what is

Pallavi: 00:09:58

a 70 year old Pallavi going to be saying to the Pallavi today?

Pallavi: 00:10:01

If I'm fearing over something, that for me is my biggest, it snaps me

Pallavi: 00:10:04

out of fear like this, because I think I'm my biggest stakeholder.

Pallavi: 00:10:09

When I bring the 70 year old standing in a corner and just looking at

Pallavi: 00:10:11

me saying what the hell's going on, why aren't you doing this?

Pallavi: 00:10:14

And why are you twiddling your thumbs?

Pallavi: 00:10:16

That I think is the biggest change for me after cancer.

Pallavi: 00:10:19

Time.

Pallavi: 00:10:19

You value time, but not in a time management kind of way.

Pallavi: 00:10:22

Like manage time, but in the sense of fill your time with

Pallavi: 00:10:26

just rich and beautiful things.

Rob: 00:10:28

It reminds me of the the Stoic Memento Mori, isn't it?

Pallavi: 00:10:32

Yeah.

Pallavi: 00:10:34

Yeah.

Rob: 00:10:34

Okay.

Rob: 00:10:35

What exactly is the journey that you take your clients on?

Pallavi: 00:10:38

Great question.

Pallavi: 00:10:39

So in, in my coaching process, which is a one to one and very

Pallavi: 00:10:43

personalized women leaders.

Pallavi: 00:10:45

Come to me obviously with a problem because if there wasn't a problem,

Pallavi: 00:10:48

they wouldn't be looking for a coach.

Pallavi: 00:10:50

And the problem usually starts with what is not working,

Pallavi: 00:10:53

which is at the surface level.

Pallavi: 00:10:54

So our very first step and I'm talking now a very standard, let's say six

Pallavi: 00:10:58

session period, which is roughly about six, six and a half, seven hours.

Pallavi: 00:11:03

We go through where they are currently in there, what their problem is, and

Pallavi: 00:11:07

then we start doing, going deeper into the values that might be informing the

Pallavi: 00:11:13

situation that are, that they are facing.

Pallavi: 00:11:16

Whenever a person comes with a problem at work, it's never for a

Pallavi: 00:11:20

technical issue that they're facing.

Pallavi: 00:11:23

It's always a personal development that they, that's coming in the way.

Pallavi: 00:11:27

Something personal is coming in the way of the professional development.

Pallavi: 00:11:29

And this values exercise is really the next two or three sessions devoted to

Pallavi: 00:11:34

it, because this is where we go quite deep into what might the sources be

Pallavi: 00:11:39

and why they, once that's dismantled, why they feel stuck, that's when we

Pallavi: 00:11:44

start to turn the sails for the next, for the remaining session to say, so

Pallavi: 00:11:48

what are you going to do about it?

Pallavi: 00:11:49

Somewhere in the middle of these it takes about three to four sessions,

Pallavi: 00:11:52

depending on where the client is and, how difficult their journey has been.

Pallavi: 00:11:56

But once we dismantled the source and I'm not a big believer in staying with sources

Pallavi: 00:12:00

also, although that's really important as a professional, I struggled a lot with,

Pallavi: 00:12:05

I recognize where the problems were.

Pallavi: 00:12:07

I recognize my blind spots.

Pallavi: 00:12:09

My head coach is telling me my blind spots, but it wasn't easy

Pallavi: 00:12:13

to determine what do I do next?

Pallavi: 00:12:15

So in the remaining part of the coaching process, we customize skills and

Pallavi: 00:12:19

tactics and strategies they can use.

Pallavi: 00:12:21

So depending on the nature of the challenge, I could look at

Pallavi: 00:12:25

their communication at work.

Pallavi: 00:12:27

We look at how are they communicating?

Pallavi: 00:12:29

What are the emails read like?

Pallavi: 00:12:31

Is it a problem specific to a person?

Pallavi: 00:12:33

Is it a more generic problem?

Pallavi: 00:12:35

And the reason I do that is because when a person gets a taste of success.

Pallavi: 00:12:41

ability, their own potential that they can unlock something which

Pallavi: 00:12:44

can't happen at a theoretical level.

Pallavi: 00:12:46

You've got to take it down to brass tacks.

Pallavi: 00:12:48

And when we do that reassurance kind of fuels the next.

Pallavi: 00:12:51

Conversation they want to have with someone.

Pallavi: 00:12:53

And then mostly after six or seven or max eight sessions these women are on

Pallavi: 00:12:58

their own because they've tried and tested some strategies and tactics.

Pallavi: 00:13:01

So it's about starting with the problem statement, focusing, going

Pallavi: 00:13:05

down to the origin and then going very tailored to how to get out of it.

Pallavi: 00:13:11

So I use combination of NLP.

Pallavi: 00:13:14

I use a combination of neuroscience.

Pallavi: 00:13:16

The philosophy is going forward looking, then backward investigation.

Pallavi: 00:13:22

And I do this because this is where I struggled the most.

Pallavi: 00:13:27

As a brown woman working with different nationalities,

Pallavi: 00:13:30

different parts of the world.

Pallavi: 00:13:32

Of course, as a professional, you're trying to grasp how the culture

Pallavi: 00:13:35

is and how people communicate.

Pallavi: 00:13:36

That's fine.

Pallavi: 00:13:37

But I think comes a point where you recognize the problem very

Pallavi: 00:13:41

well, but now you need that helping hand or that guidance.

Pallavi: 00:13:45

If you speak to HR at work, they tow the party line, they're not going to come

Pallavi: 00:13:49

to you with specifics that you need.

Pallavi: 00:13:51

They don't have the time.

Pallavi: 00:13:52

You're just one amongst many.

Pallavi: 00:13:54

Your leader, even though if, even if they're the nicest people in the

Pallavi: 00:13:57

planet, the point is that in their role as a leader, they're incredibly busy.

Pallavi: 00:14:01

You've got to work this out yourself.

Pallavi: 00:14:02

I made so many wrong decisions and I did so many things that would do

Pallavi: 00:14:05

differently that I think there's so much value in having someone guide you.

Pallavi: 00:14:11

Attuned to your authentic style.

Pallavi: 00:14:13

So if you tell me Pallavi do this, that's mentoring.

Pallavi: 00:14:16

This is what I did Pallavi in this situation.

Pallavi: 00:14:18

You can do this, that's mentoring.

Pallavi: 00:14:20

But this, what I do is we look at my clients authentic style of operating.

Pallavi: 00:14:25

One client said she was very kind.

Pallavi: 00:14:28

She came across very soft spoken, but she said, I don't want to lose that.

Pallavi: 00:14:32

We don't want to lose our authentic style.

Pallavi: 00:14:34

But, we concluded the end of eight weeks or so and she said, I want to be fierce.

Pallavi: 00:14:38

So when they come up with anchor words like that, they are such guiding forces

Pallavi: 00:14:42

to say this is what I want to be here.

Pallavi: 00:14:44

These are the questions I want to ask in this meeting or in this conversation.

Pallavi: 00:14:48

That becomes a game changer because now, when you leave coaching with me you're

Pallavi: 00:14:52

walking out with some very specific things you can apply to your situation.

Pallavi: 00:14:56

As opposed to reading a book, which is generic or listening to a pod, you

Pallavi: 00:14:59

still have to make the mental effort to say, after reading a book, what do

Pallavi: 00:15:03

I extract in integrate into my life?

Pallavi: 00:15:06

But when you are coaching one on one , you're co creating solutions.

Pallavi: 00:15:09

They're plated up for you in your style, in your favorite restaurant.

Pallavi: 00:15:12

And I think that's what makes it so much fun.

Pallavi: 00:15:14

And I learned so much in the process.

Pallavi: 00:15:15

Like it's so much fun doing this as well.

Rob: 00:15:18

The first point I want to pick up on is the last thing you

Rob: 00:15:20

said there, it's so much fun.

Rob: 00:15:22

Clearly you love what you do?

Rob: 00:15:23

So what is it what's the part of it that you love?

Pallavi: 00:15:26

I think the fact that I'm over all the embarrassments vulnerabilities,

Pallavi: 00:15:32

I can pretty much bear my soul to someone, but without minimizing myself.

Pallavi: 00:15:37

That makes me feel that I'm in a very strong place.

Pallavi: 00:15:40

Now that's obviously the outcome of a lot of work done in the back.

Pallavi: 00:15:44

Now when I show up as this person who's saying, you know what,

Pallavi: 00:15:47

I screwed up and I'm not being Precious about the words I use.

Pallavi: 00:15:50

I use certain words with a very deliberate purpose just to test people,

Pallavi: 00:15:54

loosen them up a bit, open them up.

Pallavi: 00:15:56

When you're sharing with someone that I've done this, it immediately

Pallavi: 00:16:00

opens the person up as well.

Pallavi: 00:16:02

And the quality of your conversation goes from very formal coach,

Pallavi: 00:16:06

coachee conversation to okay.

Pallavi: 00:16:08

So what are we, what can we create here?

Pallavi: 00:16:10

What's possible here?

Pallavi: 00:16:11

Like it goes to possibilities.

Pallavi: 00:16:12

So we shift from.

Pallavi: 00:16:14

We shift from problem solving to possibilities.

Pallavi: 00:16:18

And I think that's where we go from tunnel vision to saying, so what's possible.

Pallavi: 00:16:22

Maybe you're, debating it's the wrong thing you're focusing on.

Pallavi: 00:16:25

Maybe we need to focus on this.

Pallavi: 00:16:26

And so many times we would shift the goalpost.

Pallavi: 00:16:29

But that's because we've uncovered a blind spot.

Pallavi: 00:16:31

So the fun part is this.

Pallavi: 00:16:33

This ability to have this open conversation and share my

Pallavi: 00:16:37

experiences so candidly that they open the other person up and then

Pallavi: 00:16:41

the quality of the conversation is just like a different planet.

Pallavi: 00:16:45

It's so energizing.

Pallavi: 00:16:46

It's so much fun.

Rob: 00:16:47

I can see that because you come across as very poised you're

Rob: 00:16:51

very deliberate in your choice of words in the way that you talk.

Rob: 00:16:54

So whereas I I have something to say and I stumble da da da I lose

Rob: 00:16:57

my words and my presentation is not.

Rob: 00:16:59

So I can see that you would be intimidating.

Rob: 00:17:03

for someone who might feel that they're struggling because you are so poised.

Rob: 00:17:07

You do have so much presence.

Rob: 00:17:09

And I suppose when I worked in groups, I realized that I

Rob: 00:17:12

never really wanted to lead.

Rob: 00:17:13

So I started school as a school was a waste of time.

Rob: 00:17:16

Didn't see any sense in it.

Rob: 00:17:17

I was never going to follow anyone else.

Rob: 00:17:18

So I've never been a follower, but equally when I've been asked to lead, I'd never

Rob: 00:17:22

want to lead because I felt it's for each person to make up their own choices.

Rob: 00:17:26

When I've been in the group, what I found is there's often someone who comes across

Rob: 00:17:31

as yourself, really poised, they speak really well, they speak for the group,

Rob: 00:17:35

they hold, they have, they're charismatic and they have all those kind of qualities.

Rob: 00:17:39

And then but I would just talk to them and it would turn out that I was the

Rob: 00:17:43

person with the ideas, but I didn't want to, I couldn't present them as well.

Rob: 00:17:47

I would just talk to them and then they would just talk to the group.

Rob: 00:17:50

So I always found that way of working for me.

Rob: 00:17:54

I can see that someone's coming in and they're maybe feeling self conscious

Rob: 00:17:57

about, communication is a problem and they look at you and I think that you've

Rob: 00:18:01

never suffered what I've suffered.

Rob: 00:18:02

You're like, I can't do what you can do.

Rob: 00:18:04

So I can see how powerful that would be for you to share that because

Rob: 00:18:09

you do come across as if it's natural and you are naturally poised.

Pallavi: 00:18:13

Thank you.

Pallavi: 00:18:14

Those are big words you've used there Rob and I'm going to have to listen to this.

Pallavi: 00:18:18

Your way of operating is also very interesting.

Pallavi: 00:18:20

So when I do interview you, I'm going to I'm going to go

Pallavi: 00:18:22

back and listen to this bit.

Pallavi: 00:18:23

I learned over a long time as an outcome of my.

Pallavi: 00:18:26

Cancer situation that actually we're here to have a good time

Pallavi: 00:18:31

before we roll off a mortal coil.

Pallavi: 00:18:34

I call it mortal coil because we all have we all make mistakes.

Pallavi: 00:18:37

We will continue doing it.

Pallavi: 00:18:39

That's fine.

Pallavi: 00:18:40

Yeah.

Pallavi: 00:18:40

Like I still do it.

Pallavi: 00:18:41

When I tried to take pictures from a website and say,

Pallavi: 00:18:44

okay, so what is the persona?

Pallavi: 00:18:46

What is this media persona probably wants to project to the world?

Pallavi: 00:18:49

It was never being this uppity in a nice, big suit or looking really, it's easy.

Pallavi: 00:18:54

That's the easy bit.

Pallavi: 00:18:55

I can get a red suit and I can wear it, or a dress or whatever.

Pallavi: 00:18:58

I wanna be the girl next door . Who was just as much the underdog trying to dodge

Pallavi: 00:19:03

and trying to find a way into life and said, you know what, to hell with this.

Pallavi: 00:19:07

That's what I am.

Pallavi: 00:19:08

And I'm, of course, lots of bruises along the way.

Pallavi: 00:19:11

You stumble, you fumble, you fall, but now here's an opportunity.

Pallavi: 00:19:14

People don't need to do that.

Pallavi: 00:19:15

So what I was, what I started saying was, I think it's after cancer and many years

Pallavi: 00:19:20

after it, when I realized that actually to just bear your vulnerabilities, but then

Pallavi: 00:19:24

do it a little bit nice, sassy, classy way, as opposed to being a victim mode, I

Pallavi: 00:19:30

can make it sound really victim like, Oh, yeah, it's been really tough my 10 years.

Pallavi: 00:19:34

And then we can have a sobby conversation, or I can say yeah, it

Pallavi: 00:19:37

happened and thank God I'm alive and I better do something about my life.

Pallavi: 00:19:40

That's also why I went for I don't know if you saw this on LinkedIn,

Pallavi: 00:19:43

but I went for this standup comedy.

Pallavi: 00:19:45

In Greece, they, there was a small club doing English style comedy and you could

Pallavi: 00:19:48

do four minutes of material and you'd get feedback that I was saying I practice and

Pallavi: 00:19:53

I'm like, I'm just going to go and do it.

Pallavi: 00:19:54

Like, how bad would it be?

Pallavi: 00:19:56

I did twice.

Pallavi: 00:19:57

The first one was great.

Pallavi: 00:19:58

I think I got some claps or laughs for the second one.

Pallavi: 00:20:01

I bombed like big time, but I said, I'm coming back.

Pallavi: 00:20:04

This is not over yet.

Pallavi: 00:20:06

So yeah, because of cancer, I think my, I'm able to say it's okay, it's fine.

Rob: 00:20:12

It puts life into perspective, doesn't it?

Rob: 00:20:14

I think stand up has to be the hardest thing.

Rob: 00:20:16

I think public speaking is hard.

Rob: 00:20:18

I wouldn't say I'm a great speaker, but it took me a lot just to stand up and speak.

Rob: 00:20:22

I can remember I went to Toastmasters and the first time I had to give a speech

Rob: 00:20:26

I spent, there's all the kind of warm up and other things going on before you

Rob: 00:20:30

go and I was just looking at the door and I could just go, I could just go.

Rob: 00:20:35

That terrified me.

Rob: 00:20:35

But for stand up is it's brutal.

Rob: 00:20:38

It's one thing to give a speech and people will look bored or whatever.

Rob: 00:20:41

Stand up.

Rob: 00:20:42

If you don't get a laugh, it's yeah.

Rob: 00:20:44

I have great admiration for you in doing that.

Pallavi: 00:20:48

Thank you.

Pallavi: 00:20:49

But I have to say it was a workshop.

Pallavi: 00:20:51

It was a safe space.

Pallavi: 00:20:52

There were so many other people like me, which is part of the reason I went.

Pallavi: 00:20:55

I was like, all right, we're gonna, we're gonna start with small stakes,

Pallavi: 00:20:58

but yeah, but it was fun nonetheless.

Pallavi: 00:21:01

Enjoyed it.

Rob: 00:21:02

Normally when you work with people, there is a common

Rob: 00:21:05

problems, common scenarios.

Rob: 00:21:08

So when I would work with people in relationships,

Rob: 00:21:11

when I work with people one.

Rob: 00:21:12

There's normally a point where they get there where they start

Rob: 00:21:16

to trust you and it's am I broken?

Rob: 00:21:19

Am I unlovable?

Rob: 00:21:19

Is there something wrong with me?

Rob: 00:21:21

So that's the common thing and I think that comes across in most coaching.

Rob: 00:21:25

So I'm just wondering what are the common fears, misconceptions and

Rob: 00:21:29

myths that people working with you have before they start working?

Pallavi: 00:21:34

I think Given that social media is talking so much about

Pallavi: 00:21:37

imposter syndrome, about people pleasing, about a lot of these

Pallavi: 00:21:42

elements, women come quite aware.

Pallavi: 00:21:45

And yes, I do feel like an imposter.

Pallavi: 00:21:47

So they'll come in saying, I feel like an imposter.

Pallavi: 00:21:49

And there is a huge gap between and I say this respectfully.

Pallavi: 00:21:53

So not disrespectfully, but it also applied to me that you recognize the term

Pallavi: 00:21:58

imposter syndrome, but then when you start talking about the traits of an imposter.

Pallavi: 00:22:03

Or traits of someone who feels legitimate when you start going deeper,

Pallavi: 00:22:06

you start to realize that this is a, it's a surface level thought about,

Pallavi: 00:22:10

okay, I'm not feeling confident here.

Pallavi: 00:22:12

So one of the biggest moments I encounter is when we reframe

Pallavi: 00:22:19

and they go, Oh, really?

Pallavi: 00:22:20

So for instance, an imposter syndrome, your question, you ask them saying,

Pallavi: 00:22:24

so how many presentations have you made in the past to senior people?

Pallavi: 00:22:29

So let's talk with data.

Pallavi: 00:22:30

So I bring in I like talking a bit with numbers and data and evidence

Pallavi: 00:22:34

and facts, because we want the fluff out of the room, right?

Pallavi: 00:22:37

This is not a therapy.

Pallavi: 00:22:38

This is saying let's go and conquer the world.

Pallavi: 00:22:40

So one of those is.

Pallavi: 00:22:42

You ask them factual questions, and as you start to go a bit deeper and gently, you

Pallavi: 00:22:47

start to realize that there is no evidence for them to say, I feel like an imposter.

Pallavi: 00:22:51

It's more lack of training or lack of this.

Pallavi: 00:22:54

And that kind of goes, and that's a tough one because it goes from, if I

Pallavi: 00:22:58

can, An easy go to, I have imposter syndrome, just saying, now I need to

Pallavi: 00:23:03

practice that I need to really think through what goes on the slides.

Pallavi: 00:23:07

And that transition goes from, I'm feeling, do I need to stop

Pallavi: 00:23:11

thinking what I need here?

Pallavi: 00:23:12

So let the thinking come first and then inform your feeling

Pallavi: 00:23:15

as opposed to feeling first.

Pallavi: 00:23:16

So they come to me feeling, and then we go on to thinking.

Pallavi: 00:23:20

Another one is where they.

Pallavi: 00:23:22

They come to me with statements.

Pallavi: 00:23:24

This is how this one spoke to me.

Pallavi: 00:23:26

This is one this one said to me when I asked them to write up a product

Pallavi: 00:23:30

description, they said, that's like making a peanut butter sandwich.

Pallavi: 00:23:34

It's simple.

Pallavi: 00:23:34

Why do I need to do this?

Pallavi: 00:23:36

How do I respond to such situations?

Pallavi: 00:23:38

And then you actually track back a little bit with them saying,

Pallavi: 00:23:41

so what occurred in that moment?

Pallavi: 00:23:43

The whole session sometimes goes into dismantling a moment, but the moment

Pallavi: 00:23:46

you do, you can start to see their eyes widen and they're saying, okay,

Pallavi: 00:23:51

and then I didn't know what to say.

Pallavi: 00:23:55

A macro generic feeling down to really zoomed in moment and

Pallavi: 00:24:01

asking them what happened there.

Pallavi: 00:24:03

When they sit with that moment, and when you're doing it in a

Pallavi: 00:24:06

safe place with someone who's facilitating that process for you.

Pallavi: 00:24:10

There are tremendous moments of insight that come out of it for them as to why

Pallavi: 00:24:15

did I freeze in front of this person.

Pallavi: 00:24:18

The last thing I'd say, which is very powerful is I love to give

Pallavi: 00:24:23

them a language they can use.

Pallavi: 00:24:25

And the words they can use.

Pallavi: 00:24:27

So one of the things that if someone's struggling with confidence I tend to say,

Pallavi: 00:24:32

especially to women is that don't complete your thoughts, complete your sentence.

Pallavi: 00:24:36

You'll start noticing it and seeing it all the time.

Pallavi: 00:24:39

So often, even men do, but because I'm a women's coach and consultant,

Pallavi: 00:24:43

I'll stay in that domain, but they just ended with, yeah, we did that.

Pallavi: 00:24:47

Yeah.

Pallavi: 00:24:48

Yeah, it was a good presentation.

Pallavi: 00:24:49

They said it was good.

Pallavi: 00:24:50

Yeah.

Pallavi: 00:24:50

So yeah.

Pallavi: 00:24:50

No.

Pallavi: 00:24:51

You've got to complete your part because it's such a harmless, it's so humble.

Pallavi: 00:24:55

So yeah, it's two words.

Pallavi: 00:24:56

It's very harmless, but you don't know when it starts to happen at other places.

Pallavi: 00:25:01

And then you don't know when it starts to get filled in with other people's

Pallavi: 00:25:05

thoughts because they interpret it.

Pallavi: 00:25:06

And before you know it, because you're not aware you lose the plot.

Pallavi: 00:25:10

It's too hard and it's too late.

Pallavi: 00:25:12

So I also work with them to give them a language.

Pallavi: 00:25:15

If they've got a difficult boss?

Pallavi: 00:25:17

You need to insist more from let's say a peer.

Pallavi: 00:25:19

How do you do it without alienating them?

Pallavi: 00:25:21

So we kind of work with, so these are some of the fears and some of the

Pallavi: 00:25:25

things we spend our time in, which either end up becoming tools and

Pallavi: 00:25:28

strategies they can work out with.

Pallavi: 00:25:30

Or insights they can walk up and say, Oh, okay.

Pallavi: 00:25:32

So this is what I need to tweak.

Pallavi: 00:25:35

And the last bit I'm going to say, that's the moment of personal power and that

Pallavi: 00:25:39

gives me goosebumps every single time.

Pallavi: 00:25:41

Because when you notice that glint in their eye and you notice in a

Pallavi: 00:25:44

very quiet and a slow environment, like talking, everything's just easy.

Pallavi: 00:25:49

That moment of personal power when they step into when they taste it, it's

Pallavi: 00:25:52

just very hard to go out of it again.

Pallavi: 00:25:55

So that is the connection they draw and then they learn how to keep

Pallavi: 00:26:00

resting it every time within them.

Pallavi: 00:26:03

That's usually invigorating as well.

Rob: 00:26:05

Yeah it's more experiential, isn't it?

Rob: 00:26:07

It's where someone experiences something, they know what it feels like.

Rob: 00:26:11

And so they're more able to calibrate to that in the future.

Rob: 00:26:15

It's interesting that you say about the not people not finishing sentences.

Rob: 00:26:20

So I edit quite a lot of these.

Rob: 00:26:22

Particularly in discussion, I realize how little I finish a sentence because I start

Rob: 00:26:28

one sentence and then I have an idea and I go in another direction and then I go

Rob: 00:26:32

in another direction and I realize when I edit it, it's all gibberish because

Rob: 00:26:37

I've never actually said anything.

Rob: 00:26:39

I've just started in one direction and then I've suddenly had a different idea.

Rob: 00:26:43

And it's something.

Rob: 00:26:44

One of the challenges I've had in speaking is I tend to think as I speak and I've

Rob: 00:26:50

needed to learn to shut off ideas.

Rob: 00:26:54

This is what I'm going to say that's it because otherwise I'll say something

Rob: 00:26:59

and I'll, I could have said it 10 times, but each time it will trigger a

Rob: 00:27:02

different association, a different idea.

Rob: 00:27:04

I'll go off with the idea and I'll end up without a finished sentence.

Pallavi: 00:27:09

A standard of admission Rob, I should commend you.

Pallavi: 00:27:12

But one thing I do, I started for myself because I was not a smart ass either.

Pallavi: 00:27:17

And I tell a lot of my clients as well is we all need to think when we are speaking.

Pallavi: 00:27:21

We do, because otherwise it's, yeah.

Pallavi: 00:27:23

So I tell them, use, say the statement, get used to saying the statement, 'yeah,

Pallavi: 00:27:28

so I'm just thinking as I'm speaking.

Pallavi: 00:27:30

Please bear with me', let them know what's going on and you'll notice.

Pallavi: 00:27:34

People actually don't interrupt you when you say that.

Pallavi: 00:27:37

It works because you made the intention known that you're not a slow thinker.

Pallavi: 00:27:41

You're thinking as you're speaking.

Pallavi: 00:27:43

Yeah.

Rob: 00:27:43

Yeah, that can make all the difference.

Rob: 00:27:45

It's being prepared, isn't it?

Rob: 00:27:47

And when you're prepared, gives you a level of confidence.

Pallavi: 00:27:50

But like you said, if that you would show some ideas and say, this is

Pallavi: 00:27:54

what I'm going to talk about or focus on but I think in live conversations, when

Pallavi: 00:27:58

someone is saying something and that is not what you're prepared for, it's a curve

Pallavi: 00:28:03

ball, it can come in quite handy to just ask for this time to say I'm just having

Pallavi: 00:28:07

a thing, but I'm thinking as I'm speaking.

Pallavi: 00:28:09

And I use that a lot because.

Pallavi: 00:28:11

Because I think in culture, we put a lot of emphasis on prepare, and it's great.

Pallavi: 00:28:15

But, in a presentation, for instance, it's not how well you deliver it.

Pallavi: 00:28:20

What were those two curveballs that you handled well?

Pallavi: 00:28:23

And not with answers.

Pallavi: 00:28:24

It could just be, like, I don't have the answer, I'll come back.

Pallavi: 00:28:27

Or this is what I think as of right now, what are your thoughts?

Pallavi: 00:28:31

And so whichever way you tackle that curveball, I think the differentiator

Pallavi: 00:28:35

becomes when you're prepared when that moment comes, because a lot of

Pallavi: 00:28:39

this is performance without rehearsal.

Rob: 00:28:41

Yeah that's that's a great insight.

Rob: 00:28:43

Another thing that I've realized is when I'm over prepared.

Rob: 00:28:46

So I'm really gonna get this message across.

Rob: 00:28:49

I'm really over prepared.

Rob: 00:28:50

They tend to be my worst presentations because I become so fixated

Rob: 00:28:55

on getting an answer or on, on sharing an idea that I lose any

Rob: 00:29:01

connection with who I'm talking to.

Rob: 00:29:03

And that's really why It's really why I do these videos is because

Rob: 00:29:08

I don't like talking to a camera.

Rob: 00:29:10

It doesn't give me any energy.

Rob: 00:29:11

I'd rather ideas come up live.

Rob: 00:29:14

And I accept that my like presentation isn't as poised . But for me that's an

Rob: 00:29:19

acceptance of that's the way I work.

Rob: 00:29:22

For me, it's more about what I know just being able to get across that.

Rob: 00:29:26

And I think.

Rob: 00:29:27

All of us, we have to accept our makeup, our strengths.

Rob: 00:29:30

And I think if you accept them yourself, then other people accept you as them.

Rob: 00:29:36

I'm guessing that's probably a large part of your work is when people come to

Rob: 00:29:40

you, they're not accepting themselves and through your work, they raise their game,

Rob: 00:29:45

but they also come to accept themselves.

Rob: 00:29:47

Which is where the confidence and presence comes from.

Pallavi: 00:29:50

Yeah, I use four terms.

Pallavi: 00:29:51

I, the only thing I very deliberately stay away from is use terms like self

Pallavi: 00:29:57

awareness as an arrival point into a conversation, because the arrival

Pallavi: 00:30:00

point of a client into my life or into my office is always a problem.

Pallavi: 00:30:05

And that problem inevitably takes you down to self awareness.

Pallavi: 00:30:09

Okay.

Pallavi: 00:30:09

I just think it's a boring, if I had a problem at work and I, and there

Pallavi: 00:30:13

was a coach, lovely coach, but she was talking about self awareness.

Pallavi: 00:30:16

I like, no, I don't wanna go.

Pallavi: 00:30:17

Sounds boring now.

Pallavi: 00:30:19

It may not be the case for everyone but I think you, you're absolutely right.

Pallavi: 00:30:22

It is about accepting your constitution.

Pallavi: 00:30:26

This is who you are and, yeah, and it's not going to be perfect,

Pallavi: 00:30:30

you're not a pleasure 24 7.

Rob: 00:30:31

I I think for me it's, you have awareness and when you have awareness

Rob: 00:30:35

you have to accept a large part of my thing is accept reality as it

Rob: 00:30:39

is, accept people as they are accept yourself as you are and then once you

Rob: 00:30:43

have that acceptance you're able to move on and then you're able to evolve.

Rob: 00:30:48

It all begins with awareness, but awareness on its own isn't enough.

Pallavi: 00:30:52

Yeah.

Pallavi: 00:30:53

So the awareness bit is also where a coach can help because that's where

Pallavi: 00:30:57

they'll help you uncover your blind spots.

Pallavi: 00:30:59

And when I got my first coach at work and part of the reason what I do, I'm

Pallavi: 00:31:03

just taking a step back is because I think as little girls, we were never

Pallavi: 00:31:07

really taught how to tackle situations.

Pallavi: 00:31:10

Skillfully, quite difficult conversations.

Pallavi: 00:31:12

So the communication styles, the operating styles and the rituals you absorbed as a

Pallavi: 00:31:17

child and you went through with to college they don't usually work in the workplace.

Pallavi: 00:31:23

So women end up doing one of two things.

Pallavi: 00:31:25

They either go along with things and don't really watch their views.

Pallavi: 00:31:29

And they're like, it's too much of a hassle, too much of an effort, or like

Pallavi: 00:31:33

I used to be too much for some people because you want to get the results

Pallavi: 00:31:37

and it's not so much about people.

Pallavi: 00:31:38

You want to get there.

Pallavi: 00:31:39

Tempering both the approaches is hugely crucial, not just as

Pallavi: 00:31:44

a woman and as a professional.

Pallavi: 00:31:45

I think it's vital human skill.

Pallavi: 00:31:48

To be able to figure out when you want a soft touch, when you want a hard

Pallavi: 00:31:52

touch, who needs tough love or who needs the little gentle pat on their back.

Pallavi: 00:31:57

What I think made a huge difference for me was to depersonalize a lot of this

Pallavi: 00:32:01

stuff and take it at a human level, because when we start to look at the

Pallavi: 00:32:06

ability to love or be loved as humans or lead or be led as humans you have to

Pallavi: 00:32:11

realize it is, it was never about you.

Pallavi: 00:32:14

You have this capacity accessible to you and you can take the tools

Pallavi: 00:32:18

available in the marketplace and expand that capacity for yourself.

Pallavi: 00:32:23

But your magic and your ability to transform things, it's

Pallavi: 00:32:28

within you it's never outside.

Pallavi: 00:32:29

That's the distinction between an external title you get at work

Pallavi: 00:32:33

is the director of something.

Pallavi: 00:32:34

Versus your inner power, which has nothing to do with titles.

Pallavi: 00:32:37

It's got to do with everything non formal authority.

Pallavi: 00:32:42

So how do you, in a conversation or even events, how do you just show up?

Pallavi: 00:32:46

So I went for an event and this is me having cultivated this over the years.

Pallavi: 00:32:50

It's not a recent, look at me, I'm so smart, but I was at this

Pallavi: 00:32:53

massive event a few weeks ago.

Pallavi: 00:32:55

In one of the parties, after we met the people, we'd gone to meet, what do you

Pallavi: 00:32:58

do, you can start scrolling your phone or you can start doing whatever else.

Pallavi: 00:33:02

I just took my business cards out and I was like, okay, so I'm

Pallavi: 00:33:05

going to go talk to this one.

Pallavi: 00:33:06

And I said, look, 'hi, I'm so and and instead of just, scrolling

Pallavi: 00:33:10

on my phone, I'm here to network.

Pallavi: 00:33:12

I thought I should come and network.

Pallavi: 00:33:13

That's what I do.

Pallavi: 00:33:14

What do you do?' And they will, Oh, great.

Pallavi: 00:33:16

And they were like, Oh, I've never seen someone come in,

Pallavi: 00:33:18

what's the word engaged this way.

Pallavi: 00:33:20

This is great.

Pallavi: 00:33:20

And the conversation started, but I went with a very genuine

Pallavi: 00:33:24

intention and articulated it.

Pallavi: 00:33:26

So I'm not here to scroll on my phone.

Pallavi: 00:33:28

I can do that.

Pallavi: 00:33:29

I'm here to engage.

Pallavi: 00:33:30

So this is me.

Pallavi: 00:33:31

And then I met a few people like that.

Pallavi: 00:33:33

So this is the skill part.

Pallavi: 00:33:34

So the self awareness is that, okay, I could be looking good standing alone,

Pallavi: 00:33:38

and this is feeling really embarrassing.

Pallavi: 00:33:39

Okay, that's, now what?

Pallavi: 00:33:41

Oh, now I've got to do something about this.

Pallavi: 00:33:44

So it's like the dance or the tango between self

Pallavi: 00:33:46

awareness and self expression.

Pallavi: 00:33:48

This is what I think, and this is how I'm going to bring it out into the world.

Rob: 00:33:51

Yeah.

Rob: 00:33:52

I love that.

Rob: 00:33:53

Basically I'm seeing that there's, it's really three things.

Rob: 00:33:56

It's self awareness, it's the skill and what that leads to is self expression.

Rob: 00:34:00

I'm going back to how you began, how you, Answered that question.

Rob: 00:34:05

You talked about going back to why, going back to, it was like why I

Rob: 00:34:08

do what I do or something similar.

Rob: 00:34:10

I just wanted to, what's the end product.

Rob: 00:34:14

So for me people think I do relationships.

Rob: 00:34:17

People think I do conflict.

Rob: 00:34:18

People think I do teams, but for me, it's none of that.

Rob: 00:34:21

It's about freedom for people.

Rob: 00:34:24

Because the first key focus that I chose was how can people be happier?

Rob: 00:34:28

And it wasn't so much about happiness as about what's stopping you.

Rob: 00:34:33

So it was overcoming barriers.

Rob: 00:34:34

I only got into relationships because relationships were where

Rob: 00:34:37

everyone was stuck and I started to see the patterns .It's not

Rob: 00:34:41

about having a great relationship.

Rob: 00:34:43

It's about feeling free because so many people are stuck in a bad

Rob: 00:34:46

relationship or they're stuck without a relationship when they want to be in one.

Rob: 00:34:50

And they feel that's the thing holding them back when really they just.

Rob: 00:34:55

need to feel free.

Rob: 00:34:56

So I'm curious, what would be your equivalent?

Pallavi: 00:34:59

It's living the life of integrity.

Pallavi: 00:35:02

Your inner and outer world, your inner world needs to be

Pallavi: 00:35:06

channeled into your outer world.

Pallavi: 00:35:08

But you need to do it skillfully.

Pallavi: 00:35:09

If I'm in a relationship and I say, this is what I want in this relationship,

Pallavi: 00:35:13

I would want you to come and give me a cup of tea every day, once a day.

Pallavi: 00:35:17

It makes me feel loved.

Pallavi: 00:35:18

That's not going to work.

Pallavi: 00:35:19

I've got to find a way to, to land it with the other person so they can

Pallavi: 00:35:24

understand where I'm coming from.

Pallavi: 00:35:25

And in that process, I grow because I'm creatively now thinking that

Pallavi: 00:35:30

this is how I want to experience this relationship with this person or at work.

Pallavi: 00:35:34

If someone is behaving in a certain way and a lot of times I still don't succeed.

Pallavi: 00:35:39

I have to say, this is about living a life of integrity, because when

Pallavi: 00:35:44

you do, the degree of personal power, you feel and therefore the freedom,

Pallavi: 00:35:48

like you say, the potential and your capacities that you can expand.

Pallavi: 00:35:53

It's phenomenal.

Pallavi: 00:35:54

And you can scale your impact.

Pallavi: 00:35:56

You can't scale your impact on your own.

Pallavi: 00:35:58

You need different mechanisms.

Pallavi: 00:35:59

It's not a post a day or a conversation a day.

Pallavi: 00:36:03

So the ultimate goal is that you've got one life.

Pallavi: 00:36:06

You've got to really live it to your maximum potential.

Pallavi: 00:36:09

And there is a way to do it.

Pallavi: 00:36:11

It doesn't have to be effortsome.

Pallavi: 00:36:12

You can live in integrity.

Rob: 00:36:13

Integrity is one of my core things.

Rob: 00:36:17

And it's core for that reason.

Rob: 00:36:18

For me honor is so important and integrity is the way that you feel honor.

Rob: 00:36:24

People define things differently, but for me, if you live with integrity.

Rob: 00:36:29

You feel that like you don't have guilt, you're not hiding from people,

Rob: 00:36:32

you can just be who you are and then you can look at yourself in the mirror,

Rob: 00:36:36

and for me that's what it's about more than what other people see you,

Rob: 00:36:41

if you can be at peace with yourself.

Rob: 00:36:43

Now wrapping all that up.

Rob: 00:36:45

You mentioned it's women leaders, but who is the kind of

Rob: 00:36:48

person that is looking for you?

Rob: 00:36:50

What's going on before they contact you, you've spoken a bit about the

Rob: 00:36:54

problems but then, yeah, if you could give us a snapshot of where they

Rob: 00:36:58

might be now, what the process would be like and where they'll get to.

Pallavi: 00:37:02

So a smart, thoughtful, ambitious corporate leader at the workplace.

Pallavi: 00:37:07

And when I say leader here, they don't need to be leading people.

Pallavi: 00:37:10

They are, they could be an individual contributor or a leader.

Pallavi: 00:37:14

So aspiring or established leaders.

Pallavi: 00:37:16

Either they know what the problem is.

Pallavi: 00:37:18

They can't get on with the boss.

Pallavi: 00:37:19

They can't get on with someone or their career isn't going the way they want it.

Pallavi: 00:37:24

So they know, or they're problem unaware and something isn't quite working and

Pallavi: 00:37:29

they don't know why in their workplace.

Pallavi: 00:37:30

They would have wanted to be at a certain level by this stage five

Pallavi: 00:37:35

years into a role that wants to be at this title and they're not.

Pallavi: 00:37:37

And then we start to work backwards on.

Pallavi: 00:37:40

where the problem, what the problem might be that they need fixing.

Pallavi: 00:37:45

So you could be problem aware or unaware.

Pallavi: 00:37:47

And then we get down to the juiciest part, which is the skill.

Pallavi: 00:37:50

How do you get out of blind spots?

Pallavi: 00:37:53

It's not enough in uncovering it.

Pallavi: 00:37:55

Those strategies and tactics are quite tailored.

Pallavi: 00:37:58

So if you're in the corporate world and you have a career that's good, but now

Pallavi: 00:38:04

you're hitting a point where you either want to grow to the next level or things

Pallavi: 00:38:07

are not going in the way you want.

Pallavi: 00:38:09

You know what the problem is, or you don't we can figure that out together.

Rob: 00:38:13

What, what comes to mind, when I'm listening is probably someone who

Rob: 00:38:18

wants to move up, wants a promotion but they need to step into the leadership

Rob: 00:38:24

ability and the communication skills to be able to be seen as that person.

Rob: 00:38:29

And so that they get that next level job.

Pallavi: 00:38:32

That's certainly one Rob.

Pallavi: 00:38:33

And the other is you could be in a certain position that you recently

Pallavi: 00:38:37

moved to as well and you wanting to strengthen that role, both vertically,

Pallavi: 00:38:43

upwards, sideways, and downwards.

Pallavi: 00:38:45

Or it could be that you are aspiring to just grow laterally.

Pallavi: 00:38:49

You've been in the organization 15 years.

Pallavi: 00:38:51

Now you want to grow, but it's not happening.

Pallavi: 00:38:53

And I just want to also say that what you say, like a promotion, these are some

Pallavi: 00:38:58

of the macro cycles in a professional life, but within these macro cycles are

Pallavi: 00:39:03

the micro cycles where we get caught up.

Pallavi: 00:39:05

So it could be that a professional is wanting lateral expansion and

Pallavi: 00:39:09

growth, but it isn't happening and the projects keep going to someone else.

Pallavi: 00:39:13

What are we going to do that?

Pallavi: 00:39:14

So visibility networking being seen, being heard presentations.

Pallavi: 00:39:19

Your whole presence, who you are would be, in a nutshell,

Pallavi: 00:39:22

the kind of areas we talk about.

Pallavi: 00:39:23

I know from a professional angle, I should be doing this, but I

Pallavi: 00:39:26

also find it a little bit hard.

Pallavi: 00:39:28

I'm not fully convinced to pigeonhole.

Pallavi: 00:39:30

If I can use the word to say, this is the problem with the person, because

Pallavi: 00:39:33

when they come, the problem permeates into more than one aspect of their lives.

Pallavi: 00:39:37

So this is really saying if you have a problem going to a social event and

Pallavi: 00:39:40

saying how do I really engage in network, we can have a chat, work on strategies.

Rob: 00:39:45

Something else that comes to mind just quickly before finish

Rob: 00:39:48

is, I was thinking, why women leaders and your answer answered it.

Rob: 00:39:53

In that we've changed where women and girls are told be quiet and

Rob: 00:39:58

these kind of things and they're not taught to speak up as much as men.

Rob: 00:40:02

And recently we've discussed the challenges men are facing

Rob: 00:40:07

with changes and the struggle.

Rob: 00:40:08

And it just seems to me I'm not a great one for femininity, masculinity

Rob: 00:40:12

a lot of relationship things like that.

Rob: 00:40:14

I think be who you are and it doesn't matter what.

Rob: 00:40:16

Whether it's feminine, masculine, but what I can see is if we're going to talk in

Rob: 00:40:21

those terms, what you're teaching people to do is to embrace who they are and

Rob: 00:40:26

do what they are with their own energy, whether that is feminine or masculine.

Rob: 00:40:30

Whereas a lot of women leaders tend to feel that they have to be more

Rob: 00:40:34

masculine and take on other ways of acting in the workplace that.

Rob: 00:40:40

that aren't necessarily natural or organic or comfortable with, but it's

Rob: 00:40:44

what they feel that they need to do.

Rob: 00:40:46

So it seems what you're doing is covering that.

Pallavi: 00:40:49

You're spot on.

Pallavi: 00:40:50

I'm not a big fan of feminine masculine styles as well.

Pallavi: 00:40:53

And that's why I didn't integrate that here, but it is the truth.

Pallavi: 00:40:56

They exist and there are certain attributes clubbed under each of these

Pallavi: 00:41:00

and women not just face that dilemma that they need to behave in more

Pallavi: 00:41:05

masculine ways, if you will but also the challenge they have with when to show

Pallavi: 00:41:10

too much empathy or when to scale back.

Pallavi: 00:41:12

Where you get taken for granted or you come across as a pushover.

Pallavi: 00:41:16

So it's tapping into your authentic voice, who you are, and then saying,

Pallavi: 00:41:21

how do I bring it into the world?

Pallavi: 00:41:22

If I had to put this on my tombstone, I'd probably say that, I think we

Pallavi: 00:41:26

all to a very large extent know what the problems are with us.

Pallavi: 00:41:29

Like what's not working and unless you're completely self unaware.

Pallavi: 00:41:33

The challenge is how do I turn this around in a way that works for me?

Pallavi: 00:41:37

I buy books and I read them and that's great because those are

Pallavi: 00:41:40

people's stories, but that's not going to be working for you.

Pallavi: 00:41:44

And I think that's where coaching comes in to say don't struggle alone.

Pallavi: 00:41:47

You don't have to do this on your own.

Pallavi: 00:41:49

Like Mary Oliver said, you don't have to walk on your knees for miles.

Pallavi: 00:41:53

You, there are smarter ways to six weeks and you're past it.

Pallavi: 00:41:57

So that would be the closing comment and you can be yourself and still

Pallavi: 00:42:02

maximize what life has to offer,

Rob: 00:42:04

Great closing words.

Rob: 00:42:06

As I would expect from you.

Rob: 00:42:07

One last thing.

Rob: 00:42:08

If someone wants to reach out to you before we go you're speaking at an event.

Pallavi: 00:42:13

Yeah, we are doing a workshop on the 28th.

Pallavi: 00:42:16

It's an in person workshop.

Pallavi: 00:42:18

I'm very excited about that.

Pallavi: 00:42:19

I'm doing it with two other colleagues very trained colleagues.

Pallavi: 00:42:22

And we are doing a workshop on leadership presence for women leaders in Athens.

Pallavi: 00:42:28

The title is build your leadership presence and bridge

Pallavi: 00:42:30

perception gaps at work.

Pallavi: 00:42:32

So as you start building your presence in a way that you desire, you can start

Pallavi: 00:42:36

to narrow down and bring down the gaps.

Pallavi: 00:42:38

And that brings you closer to who you are as a person.

Pallavi: 00:42:41

We're doing the workshop and I invite everyone who listens to this to sign up.

Pallavi: 00:42:46

We're making it as accessible as possible in, in all the possible

Pallavi: 00:42:50

ways of the workshop to make it really accessible to people.

Rob: 00:42:53

Okay.

Rob: 00:42:54

Sounds great.

Rob: 00:42:55

And if someone had questions about it or wanting to reach out to you

Rob: 00:42:58

aside from that where's the best place for them to contact you?

Pallavi: 00:43:01

On LinkedIn, just DM me.

Pallavi: 00:43:02

We're keeping things really simple and I will come back to you.