Merging Coaching and Tech

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All started when I was like a leader in my team.

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I've been leading the last five or six years.

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Multicultural teams, if that makes sense in general, because the companies that

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I work on is usually in the Netherlands, located, and through this leadership

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journey and my one to ones with my team members I found them so viable, not

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only for me, but especially for them.

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I got a lot of energy out of them, meaning that the days that I had

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one to ones with my teams was like probably the best days of the week.

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This is how I was super eager to enhance the outcome of the one to ones and

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everything around it, the questions to make it more interactive, et cetera.

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And this is how I met coaching, so I was starting searching about ways to

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optimize those sessions, et cetera.

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And 18 months ago, I started my coaching school.

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So now I'm a certified team coach specializing in teams

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and leadership mostly.

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I'm still a lead data scientist and the combination of two is like

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inside my coaching sessions, I use a lot of AI and tech tools.

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To make the whole session more interactive, more fun less boring.

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Let's say, this is the power of Coach Tech, I call it.

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And this is how, I use it inside

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my sessions.

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The hot

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trend.

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Yeah, I bet it is.

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I'm still working as a lead data scientist.

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It's part time and I'm transitioning to a full time team coach

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so as a data scientist, I'm guessing that you look for patterns and

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you try to connect the dots on data.

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And then you've translated that into doing that with people.

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Numbers and data always tell the truth.

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Data scientist is mostly about, creating AI applications, products, et cetera,

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around around data just to support people.

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And this is how it goes with the coaching part.

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You just collect the data inside the session, like some prompts

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or let's say the main pain point that the coachee or the team has.

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I'm trying to translate those data into an image.

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Or into an application or, to reflect their words themselves, like an image

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or like a poem generated by AI or, something that, they will see their

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problem and they will face it immediately.

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Because sometimes we have a challenge, but we cannot visualize it.

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We cannot, let's say, dreaming of this challenge, but if we see an

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image and we see ourselves inside an image or inside a written poem or

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something usually it's more easy to do some reflections and to come to

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an action.

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So what you're really trying to do is speak to someone in the language

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that they're going to receive best.

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So whether that's an image or whether that's a poem or, whatever this is really

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interesting because something I've been thinking about recently is, the difference

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between maths and English and where I've noticed a lot of people struggle.

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Like my daughters really struggle with maths and I think where people

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struggle with maths is because they don't realize it's a different language.

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In English you'd say something in it and it will be rich language and it'll

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be a story because it's got a hero.

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It's got a context and it's very concrete so someone can get to grips with it.

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But in maths an equation is.

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The purest is only the truth and only the universal and

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everything else is taken out.

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And so it describes the same thing, but it's applicable in every context because

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as soon as it's not applicable in the context, the equation is no longer true.

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That's interesting.

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And then some people are artistic, some people are creative and

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you have to meet people with.

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Whatever speaks to them.

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Yeah, so that makes sense.

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It's mostly to speak the coachee's language.

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Probably, a simple prompt by a coachee is I really want to stress less.

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Okay, what makes you stressed?

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What's make it so important for you or something and based on the answers They

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can create an image, let's say, Rob, who is, let's say, really stressed and how

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Rob imagines his situation when he's not stressed, And you reflect in two images,

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for example, Rob is stressed, Rob is not stressed And reflect those images to

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the coachee and ask a lot of questions.

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Or how do you think, what do you see inside these images?

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How would you like to see yourself when you're not stressed or something?

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Those really simple questions where the coachee, okay sees two images, he's

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really impressed and dive deeper inside the first image was super stressed.

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But he would like to go to the second phase, which like take some

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actions and not get stressed anymore or something, or get less stressed.

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This is how it goes in terms of where you are and where you would like to go.

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So it's two stages where, it's in coaching, it's still

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important to to measure the outcome that you want to achieve.

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This is how it goes.

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You are, let's say in five and you would like to go in eight.

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Okay.

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What's the difference between five and eight?

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What actions, let's say can fulfilled this gap.

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When you initially took started doing one to ones, did you have the

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same enthusiasm for them or is it, was it a process that you had to learn?

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I was super enthusiastic.

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Right from the start?

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Yeah,

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I was from the start.

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Yeah, because it was like a time not for me and someone else.

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It was a time for my team members to speak out.

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And this is super important for someone working, let's say, in 9 5.

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To have, let's say, a stage and a microphone where the stage belongs

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to them and they have the opportunity to speak out, to say things about

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professionally, but also personally.

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This connection between a leader and a member is for me, super special

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because at the end of the day, it's a human connection, right?

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Leadership is a human connection.

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So building this human connection and, have a thriving human

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connection with your team members.

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For me, it's super important because this is how you are able

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to get the best out of every

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member.

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And that was all remote, because you said the rest of your

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team are in the Netherlands.

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We're around the world, actually.

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It's some Netherlands, in Greece Africa, UK.

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Yeah, around the world.

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So that was naturally something that you enjoyed and then that

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became your favorite part of the day.

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How did you then go from that into coaching?

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I was searching for ways to optimize these sessions.

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Initially I was watching a lot of YouTube videos about other coaches or how to

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enhance your 1:1 with your team members.

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How to create a safe environment with your team members through your one on

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ones, what the best questions, et cetera.

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I realized that this is my inner piece of puzzle that was always missing.

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I always wanted to support and help people.

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To get the best out of them, and yeah, I was searching about, how go, let's say in

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mentorship, in coaching, in consulting, in advising or something like that.

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And finally I realized after analyzing all of this super detailed aspects

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because the difference between, coaching, consulting, and mentorship is

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small details, but big the same time.

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I realized that coaching is the one that fits to my personality, to my

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way of supporting the other people.

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And this is how I went to coaching school.

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When you saw that, that it fit with your personality, I'm guessing that

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there were examples of that when you were younger in life, where that kind

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of coaching mentality, that bringing out the best in others was did you

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have younger brothers and sisters?

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Was there examples of where you were put in that

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role?

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Yeah great question, when I was 17, I wanted to be a

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dentist or a doctor in general.

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So behind of this was like my willingness to support people and

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to have a special impact to people.

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I failed twice and finally studied AI, computer science, et

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cetera, with a master's degree.

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With the vision to combine health with data again.

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So health was like super important for me.

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And after that inside my one to ones I started I started getting

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a lot of attention to the mental health of employees and this is

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how this eagerness, did spark.

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And always, I'm a guy that I hate advices.

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I don't really like to give.

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Advices unless it's super important for the receiver.

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So you come to me and say, okay, give me an advice, heads up or something.

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So if it's not your final goal I'm not giving advices.

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I'm just asking questions to help you to find your own solution, your

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best action for you, let's say, and not the best action for me.

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Because the best action for me is not always the best action for someone

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else.

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What did you learn most from the coaching process?

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Yeah, a lot.

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First is to cultivate a safe and trust environment where everyone is able to

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share without feeling any judgment or feeling, let's say that everything is

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going to get in public or something or any gossip, intuitions, et cetera.

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So to build a safe and trust environment, this also applies in leadership as well.

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And the second is show empathy and compassion because there

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are two different things.

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And yeah, I think you should show empathy as a coach, as well as a leader.

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And it's really important to put yourself in other shoes, but not being Giannis.

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Being Rob, so I cannot wear your shoes like being Giannis because I'm going

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to give you advice like Giannis, right?

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But I have to wear your shoes and have your own way of thinking,

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your own way of acting, reacting.

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Your data of your environment.

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This is how I can understand how you feel and how you want to act you know.

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And the third one is The Q& A part.

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I really feel the Q& A the question answer part.

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A really typical question is like, where would you do if you were me?

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Every time that we are in, let's say, in a friend zone or something,

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or in a friendship relationship or in a love relationship or something.

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The first question that we ask, okay, I have this issue, where

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would you do if you were me?

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And people usually because they are busy or they want fast advice

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and ready advice or something, they want to hear what we do.

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The only thing that I learned is like asking questions.

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and deep questions and dig deeper inside, the main challenge that the other person

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has is the way to move forward is the way to take some action and not just tell

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something and that's the end of the story.

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No, this is not the end of the story because the story has a lot

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of aspects, you have to dig deeper.

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The deeper you go, the better, in order to find how the other person feels,

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acts understands a lot of situation around in the environment, et cetera.

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Yeah, I think those are the three things that I learned.

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Of course, there are much more, but I think those are the.

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The best.

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I heard once if someone's coming to you about something that you

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know a lot more about than them.

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When they ask a question, you should always challenge the context,

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rather than answer the question.

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If someone's new to a topic, they don't generally know enough

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to ask the right question.

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Often the question someone asks shows the level of knowledge that they have

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and it's usually the wrong question.

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If someone's new to a topic, they'll ask a beginner's question.

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Whereas someone who's say an expert, they'll look at the same question and

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say you're asking the wrong question.

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We can often get in the trap of answering people's questions when often what

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we really need to do is challenge the context in which the question was asked.

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Also, I think it's super important.

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Yeah.

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How do you set to challenge the other person?

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Okay.

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I have a vision about, becoming a top team coach, let's say, for example,

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okay, but let's challenge this my vision and my mission, what makes you

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super driven of being a team coach?

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What, how is it going to happen if you don't become a team coach?

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It's a lot of, there are a lot of challenging questions and aspects.

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Through a vision, a mission or an action or something.

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And the super important thing as well is to not listen to what is being said,

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but listening to what is not being said.

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The underwaters, it's something like you feel that, Giannis

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has a procrastination feeling.

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Okay, just breaking the surface, what does procrastination mean to you?

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Let's say, what's how does it affect your daily life?

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It's what is not being said most of the times more important than what's said.

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And same in leadership.

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And a team was not where nobody speaks out.

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It's not a high performing team.

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It's the other way

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around.

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Very true.

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So that makes me question what has been the biggest impact for you?

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In your journey on you personally,

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The biggest impact in my journey as a leader or in my journey as a coach.

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In both.

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In both.

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Okay.

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In my journey as a leader the biggest impact to myself.

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Yeah, tough question, I think.

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The way that I see my team members growing, this is what makes me

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super happy and super motivated.

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And not only inside the company, but outside the company, their personal lives,

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where, when I see them, changing habits.

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Changing their characters, their way of communicating, acting, et cetera.

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This is something, makes me super proud of them.

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At the end of the day, this is what they want, because every time that

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they hire someone I don't really care if they're super tech skilled

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or they know how to write perfect code or something, or my goal is not.

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After the six months period, let's say it was a probation period to

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be, let's say, better in coding or in AI, but to be better persons,

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specifically us as individuals.

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When I get messages from my old team members, I go to this new

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job or, I go this interview and I'm super happy and everything

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started from you, blah, blah, blah.

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I'm super grateful for, and I'm super proud of them, and yeah, I

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think this is the the impact that I always wanted to help the people.

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And when I have it, I'm, yeah, this is it.

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I'm super fulfilled, and from the coaching part, I think more or less.

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It's the same, when I see transformation to someone, so for example, I had

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recently a team coaching session here in Greece and after 90 minutes, the

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whole team finalized to an action to have a meeting once a month altogether

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without the leader and we'll discuss their problems, their challenges, their

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priorities, their vision, everything.

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When they found this action, which was like it sounds super easy, right?

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But for them, it wasn't because we've been there, let's say for 90 minutes

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and talking, discussing trying to optimizing the approach, et cetera.

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And when they found it, I saw nine faces, super smiley.

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And that was the moment that I said, yeah, you did some, something right.

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I don't know if I did everything right, but you did something right.

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And that was the aha moment, let's say from the session that not only made

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them happy and smiley, but made me super smiley inside my heart, soul,

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et cetera.

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So there's clearly that's to do with your purpose.

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So what is that tapping into in you?

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That's the thing that brings you purpose.

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That's makes you feel fulfilled.

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What you do for them is you make them happy.

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And what is that activating something in you?

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Are you aware of what that is?

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Yeah, at the end of the day, every team and every leader wants to

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be more productive, more high performer to bring more results, et cetera.

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And also this is my goal.

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In every session, so to yeah, to have, to be a better version

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of themselves in general.

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So I have this theory that everything we do comes down to about,

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probably about eight to 10 currencies.

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It's recognition, it's care it's love, it's respect.

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So I'm guessing for you it's feeling valued.

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Feeling valued.

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Do you mean to me or to

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others?

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I think it's about value as in you providing value and feeling that

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you're being a personal value.

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It's mostly about unlocking what is really hidden in your personality

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and helping you to see what's unfolded.

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So it's a chef who has a certain set of ingredients.

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They can bring a recipe that makes a higher or less lower value meal.

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My interpretation is that you like being valuable as in producing

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value and unlocking value in people.

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I think it is.

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Yeah.

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It sounds simple.

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It sounds simple.

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I think people are simple.

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I think there's only a few motivations people have.

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But we cloud it . We often feel that we shouldn't have that.

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And we feel that we have to present some noble intention.

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If you talk to people about why they do what they do,

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they'll talk to you with logic.

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And when they talk with logic, it's not really what they're talking about.

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They're talking about the rationale that they've given that they feel is

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acceptable, but it doesn't, it's not really what excites them inside them.

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For me, leadership is, should be emotional.

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It should be driven by emotions.

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Of course, there are a lot of times when you have to balance both.

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Rational decisions, emotional decisions, etc.

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But yeah, for me, leadership, because it's like a human to human

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relationship, it should start by, understanding the other person's

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emotions and how the other person feels.

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In general, and the same applies in everything, in every lesson, it's okay,

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and I totally agree with what you said, it's like people, the first thought

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is like the rational one about what, it's acceptable by the society usually.

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And what is like matching with the society believes actually.

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And after that, you know what, when they start triggering themselves,

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they will find something else that probably they're against this opinion.

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Or they have, another opinion about that.

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And this is what coaching actually does, bring to the surface, your own beliefs.

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opinions, et cetera, and try to demolish them, split them in multiple factors and

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understand, what, who am I actually, who am I at the end of the day as a person,

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as a leader and where do I want to go.

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That's my purpose in this life, let's say, in this position or something,

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I think this is the most important.

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And I think that my favorite question is just super similar.

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It's what do you want to do?

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Yeah.

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Two X or something, what they want to become, what I had to do.

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I want to be or something, it's like mostly four similar words

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and you have An initial idea and the purpose in your life and

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in your journey,

Rob: 00:20:03

it's where all journey start.

Rob: 00:20:05

Isn't it?

Rob: 00:20:05

What do I want?

Rob: 00:20:06

Where am I?

Rob: 00:20:06

What do I want?

Rob: 00:20:07

How do I get there?

Rob: 00:20:09

And it really is that simple.

Rob: 00:20:11

The problem I think is a lot of people aren't clear on what they

Rob: 00:20:15

want and what they want is going to change as they go along the journey.

Rob: 00:20:19

Because when you start, you want this thing and you haven't really

Rob: 00:20:23

understood why you want it, but one of those like eight to 10 deep

Rob: 00:20:27

currencies, is why you want it.

Rob: 00:20:29

And then as you get closer, what you want changes because it wasn't

Rob: 00:20:34

really the thing that was just a symbol for what you really wanted.

Giannis: 00:20:38

I agree.

Giannis: 00:20:38

I agree, but this is a transformation and this is a part of the journey, right?

Giannis: 00:20:43

I'm a huge believer that, it would be super viable.

Giannis: 00:20:47

For the society, for for the world around, if we were able to change, a profession

Giannis: 00:20:52

or a work, let's say every five years.

Giannis: 00:20:54

For example, I was a leader.

Giannis: 00:20:56

I am a leader.

Giannis: 00:20:57

I want to, I really want to become a team coach, a leadership coach.

Giannis: 00:21:01

And probably through this journey, I will find something else.

Giannis: 00:21:04

And in five years from now, probably I would want to become something different.

Giannis: 00:21:09

And as you said, this is the start of the journey during this journey, probably

Giannis: 00:21:14

you will find something else, something more fascinating that, brings you

Giannis: 00:21:17

closer to your full potential, because I don't think that when I will be,

Giannis: 00:21:22

let's say 80 or 75 or something really older, I will be to my full potential.

Giannis: 00:21:27

I feel it's impossible, but every day or every year I want to be closer to it.

Giannis: 00:21:32

And this is how it goes to everyone.

Giannis: 00:21:34

It's not to find it, let's say in the next month or after two

Giannis: 00:21:38

sessions or after three sessions.

Giannis: 00:21:40

It's about get closer

Rob: 00:21:41

to it.

Rob: 00:21:41

Being quite a bit older than you I'm about 30 years in now.

Rob: 00:21:45

1993 I opened up a gym, so I trained in fitness.

Rob: 00:21:49

I then trained as a nutritionist.

Rob: 00:21:51

So I think it was about 1994 when I probably started

Rob: 00:21:54

training as a nutritionist.

Rob: 00:21:56

So I had fitness and I had nutrition and I barely used my nutrition qualification

Rob: 00:22:02

because I thought, what was the point?

Rob: 00:22:03

You write people diet plans and exercise plans and they do it for a

Rob: 00:22:06

little while and then they never stick.

Rob: 00:22:08

I went more into why don't people stick?

Rob: 00:22:11

So then I trained in therapy and I ended up instead of selling gym

Rob: 00:22:15

memberships, doing therapy, but to try and get to, cause I had a similar

Rob: 00:22:20

kind of purpose and wanting to see people be the most that they could be,

Rob: 00:22:25

I'm wanting to see people be happy.

Rob: 00:22:27

I did.

Rob: 00:22:28

Therapy, went into stress, motivation.

Rob: 00:22:31

Then I went back to uni studied psychology.

Rob: 00:22:34

And everyone in psychology was looking at mental health or criminology or alcoholism

Rob: 00:22:41

or addiction or something like that.

Rob: 00:22:42

And I was like, Freud said something that if all we do is look at problems, all

Rob: 00:22:47

we do is make people moderately unhappy.

Rob: 00:22:50

And I thought we want to look at.

Rob: 00:22:51

We need to have somewhere to lead people.

Rob: 00:22:53

I learned that happiness and I was quite lucky that it was when Marty Seligman was

Rob: 00:22:58

first coming out with authentic happiness.

Rob: 00:23:01

It was around the time when Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi.

Rob: 00:23:03

I can't pronounce his name, but when he came out with a concept of flow, and

Rob: 00:23:08

because before then all they'd been was like a study in the fifties, I can't

Rob: 00:23:12

even remember his name of optimal living.

Rob: 00:23:14

So there was very little information.

Rob: 00:23:16

That's when I got into coaching back in the early days.

Rob: 00:23:19

I don't know if you know of Thomas Leonard.

Rob: 00:23:21

I learned from him after he'd left the ICF, he wasn't happy with what it became

Rob: 00:23:26

and then he was set up his own thing.

Rob: 00:23:28

I saw what him and I was like, you're a genius, but I'm not that's not my style.

Rob: 00:23:34

It doesn't fit with my.

Rob: 00:23:35

I never identified in that same way as a coach.

Rob: 00:23:38

I just saw it as a useful tool to have.

Rob: 00:23:42

But I never felt like I embodied it.

Rob: 00:23:44

I never felt it was.

Rob: 00:23:46

I always felt like I wanted to know something and be able

Rob: 00:23:49

to pass on that knowledge.

Rob: 00:23:50

And coaching is a way that is able able to meet people where they are,

Rob: 00:23:55

but it's not it's part of, like it's, I just took it as a tool.

Rob: 00:23:59

Then I realized the real problem that people had was relationships, which then

Rob: 00:24:03

led me to conflict, which then I went into mediation and realized it was teams.

Rob: 00:24:08

I would say.

Rob: 00:24:09

There's always been a constant throughout what I've done and I think there's a

Rob: 00:24:13

constant in yours, in that it was one to ones and then it became coaching.

Rob: 00:24:18

I think there's a theme that runs through our life and I think our

Rob: 00:24:22

theme is probably set by what we feel is important, maybe in childhood.

Rob: 00:24:27

That's some significant experience.

Rob: 00:24:28

And from then we're.

Rob: 00:24:31

We look at different contexts, different ways of delivering it.

Rob: 00:24:35

But I think that there's a constant in us.

Rob: 00:24:38

Say for you, that constant seems to be about maximizing potential or

Rob: 00:24:43

yeah, unlocking potential or helping people because even if you look

Rob: 00:24:48

at health, health is about helping people be at their best, isn't it?

Rob: 00:24:53

I went fitness, nutrition, that's how you help people be at their best,

Rob: 00:24:56

whereas you can't because they don't stick to it, so what's the point?

Rob: 00:25:00

So I went into the mind more, which fitted more for me.

Giannis: 00:25:04

Yeah.

Giannis: 00:25:05

That's an incredible journey.

Giannis: 00:25:06

And, I just have to say that I really admire and appreciate people like you

Giannis: 00:25:11

when, and I think this is your example is a great example about, starting

Giannis: 00:25:16

from something I thought it was viable.

Giannis: 00:25:19

And it's viable still because I think nutrition is like a part of

Giannis: 00:25:24

our being and our well being, etc.

Giannis: 00:25:29

But after that you just dig deeper and deeper until you found, what you are

Giannis: 00:25:35

passionate about at the moment, because probably in five years or in 10 years

Giannis: 00:25:39

from now, you will find something else.

Giannis: 00:25:41

Probably you will go to neuropsychology or I don't know what comes later.

Rob: 00:25:46

It's also I think I have a deep sensitivity to failure.

Rob: 00:25:50

And there's something like when you're in a kind of a relationship therapist, coach,

Rob: 00:25:55

mediator, whatever there's, you have to you have to be able to detach yourself

Rob: 00:25:59

from someone else's results because otherwise you're trying to influence them.

Rob: 00:26:03

So you have to not care.

Rob: 00:26:04

You care while letting them hold direction.

Rob: 00:26:07

And I think I, I just found to work in nutrition, I would find that soul

Rob: 00:26:14

destroying where basically maybe if you're lucky one in 10 follows

Rob: 00:26:19

what you do, because especially I tend to go into things and I'm

Rob: 00:26:22

want to really understand it.

Rob: 00:26:23

And I'm like, okay, this is the absolute best.

Rob: 00:26:26

Nutrition is so complex and it's so demanding of people because

Rob: 00:26:30

the food supply that they have by default isn't very healthy.

Rob: 00:26:34

So you have to spend money on nutrition.

Rob: 00:26:37

You have to spend money on more food so that everything weighted against you.

Rob: 00:26:41

And.

Rob: 00:26:42

I don't think I could turn up every day to work and feel this doesn't work.

Rob: 00:26:46

Not like I, yeah, I can have pride in I've got an understanding and I can give you

Rob: 00:26:52

the best advice, but if no one takes it.

Rob: 00:26:54

It doesn't feel like you're making any value.

Rob: 00:26:57

I suppose it depends on how resilient you are, because some people really

Rob: 00:27:00

have a belief and they'll pursue that nutrition, even when people

Rob: 00:27:04

aren't getting results, not because of the fault of the nutritionist, but

Rob: 00:27:09

because they just don't stick to it.

Rob: 00:27:10

I suppose I'm detached from people like you can do what you want to do.

Rob: 00:27:15

I need to have enough ratio that enough people succeed.

Rob: 00:27:18

So I've always looked at it's like pushing the problem away.

Rob: 00:27:22

The problems there.

Rob: 00:27:23

How do I make the problem more and more minor by solving more and more problems?

Rob: 00:27:27

So I don't know how you've handled that in your.

Rob: 00:27:29

Journey, like how do you deal with maybe the term is not coachable

Rob: 00:27:34

or people who don't want to take advice or don't want to do what it

Rob: 00:27:37

takes to change their situation.

Giannis: 00:27:39

Yeah.

Giannis: 00:27:40

I think the word is coachable.

Giannis: 00:27:42

I'm not going to help or support someone who is not coachable, meaning that

Giannis: 00:27:46

if you don't want to change or if you don't want to take your leap of faith.

Giannis: 00:27:51

To take the next step or to start something.

Giannis: 00:27:55

I'm not the best guy for you.

Giannis: 00:27:56

I really want to work on with visionaries, bold people, change makers, people who

Giannis: 00:28:02

are, let's say, super eager to take the next step, to get the next step.

Giannis: 00:28:07

I usually say it's like detach from the results and attach to the process.

Rob: 00:28:12

Detach from the results, but attach to the process.

Rob: 00:28:14

Yeah.

Rob: 00:28:15

Yeah.

Giannis: 00:28:15

This is how I always say to my clients and to the teams.

Giannis: 00:28:20

It's not about, being 10 percent more productive on your daily base.

Giannis: 00:28:24

It's take the necessary steps and actions.

Giannis: 00:28:27

To become 10 percent more productive and the productivity will come somehow.

Giannis: 00:28:33

With some magic way, so it's not about, what you want to achieve, but it's

Giannis: 00:28:38

about how you're going to achieve it.

Giannis: 00:28:41

And yeah, I think from my side, it's.

Giannis: 00:28:44

It's almost the same.

Giannis: 00:28:46

So I really believe in people's potential.

Giannis: 00:28:49

I really believe in your potential, but firstly, you have

Giannis: 00:28:52

to believe in your potential.

Giannis: 00:28:53

I'm not going to tell you how to believe in your potential.

Giannis: 00:28:58

If you want to start believing your potential, yes.

Giannis: 00:29:01

Come to me because you have a vision, to start believing in yourself.

Giannis: 00:29:05

Start leading yourself better.

Giannis: 00:29:07

This is how it goes.

Giannis: 00:29:08

Because you want something.

Giannis: 00:29:10

But if you don't want anything

Giannis: 00:29:12

You are not the best guy for me Or I'm not the best guy for you, try to find

Giannis: 00:29:16

someone else Who is eager to give you some advice Or probably, fit your,

Giannis: 00:29:21

in your personality or doesn't fit in your personality, but please don't come

Giannis: 00:29:25

crying back to me and saying, okay, I gave X amount of dollars and money.

Giannis: 00:29:30

This advice doesn't fit my personality.

Giannis: 00:29:32

And what should they do now?

Giannis: 00:29:34

I don't know.

Giannis: 00:29:36

I'm not, an advisor or a guy who's going to tell you what to do.

Giannis: 00:29:40

I'm a guy who's going to help you to tell yourself what to

Rob: 00:29:43

do.

Rob: 00:29:43

In my experience with in relationships, for example there was a great need and

Rob: 00:29:49

a great market for people who had come out of a narcissistic relationship.

Rob: 00:29:53

And, but the difficulty is they are so traumatized.

Rob: 00:29:58

That it takes a really sensitive approach because they have a lack of belief and

Rob: 00:30:03

they're not in a place to be challenged.

Rob: 00:30:05

And there's a lot of people that need someone else to believe in them before

Rob: 00:30:09

they, they believe in themselves.

Rob: 00:30:11

A lot of people that have come from maybe an environment where

Rob: 00:30:14

no one's believed in them.

Rob: 00:30:15

Where, what you're looking for and your style is for the high flyer, the

Rob: 00:30:21

visionary, someone who wants to change something who's already had some success.

Rob: 00:30:25

So how would you define your ideal client and what are they

Rob: 00:30:29

grappling with at the moment?

Giannis: 00:30:31

As I said before, visionary, change maker, bold people leaders,

Giannis: 00:30:36

founders who really who are the team.

Giannis: 00:30:40

People centric mostly, and they really believe that people can make

Giannis: 00:30:46

a difference inside their company.

Giannis: 00:30:48

And this is how they're going to be more profitable and they're going to

Giannis: 00:30:52

have more clients and more clients results at the end of the day.

Giannis: 00:30:56

Because what every company wants is like to me to be more profitable, to

Giannis: 00:31:00

have a bigger bank account to be, let's say, cash flow positive, et cetera.

Giannis: 00:31:06

But you really have to believe in your most viable asset, which is your

Giannis: 00:31:10

people and together with your clients.

Giannis: 00:31:13

Because if you ask me, I would say both are super important for the

Giannis: 00:31:17

thriving company clients and team.

Giannis: 00:31:19

You should focus on both in order to have a thriving company and to

Giannis: 00:31:24

find the right balance between them.

Giannis: 00:31:25

But yeah, I totally agree with your previous statement about some,

Giannis: 00:31:30

in some cases we have some people who, nobody believed in them and

Giannis: 00:31:36

they want some support on that.

Giannis: 00:31:38

To be honest, I don't know if these people want coaching or therapy.

Giannis: 00:31:44

Yeah, I think this is a great dilemma.

Giannis: 00:31:47

this is also a situation because.

Giannis: 00:31:49

If nobody believed in you in the past, and you have this this habit and this limiting

Giannis: 00:31:56

belief that I'm suck and I cannot find my inner fulfillment, et cetera, because

Giannis: 00:32:01

I'm, I'd say I'm a failure or something.

Giannis: 00:32:04

And this is something that I heard a lot and in life coaching mostly.

Giannis: 00:32:08

I think for these people, in my opinion, it's like a combination of therapy

Giannis: 00:32:13

coaching is the best because therapy, that better for me, I'm not a therapist

Giannis: 00:32:18

or a psychologist or something, usually addresses the past and the present

Giannis: 00:32:23

while coaching goes present and future.

Giannis: 00:32:26

I think a combination of both for these people is.

Giannis: 00:32:29

is the best.

Giannis: 00:32:30

Of course, as coaches, we are going to give, let's say, a hand to these

Giannis: 00:32:34

people, okay, to rise them up.

Giannis: 00:32:37

But as a coach, it's like we're not here to study their past.

Giannis: 00:32:42

We're here to design their future.

Rob: 00:32:45

When you look at therapy you can look at all the different

Rob: 00:32:48

schools of therapy and they're pretty much have a similar, Success rate.

Rob: 00:32:53

What makes the success isn't the school of therapy.

Rob: 00:32:57

It's the warmth of the therapist is how trusting the bond this how safe

Rob: 00:33:03

the space the therapist can make and I suppose that's the same in coaching.

Rob: 00:33:08

In order to change because it's so inherently stressful and because

Rob: 00:33:13

it's so cognitively demanding and emotionally demanding.

Rob: 00:33:17

We need that space is like a refuge.

Rob: 00:33:21

If we go out and we take risks, we need somewhere safe, which is part of the value

Rob: 00:33:27

of a relationship is that a relationship is means that you have someone that

Rob: 00:33:33

has your back no matter what, like a romantic relationship, you have someone

Rob: 00:33:37

that's got your back no matter what.

Rob: 00:33:38

So you can go out and take risks in the world because you've

Rob: 00:33:40

got someone to cover for you.

Rob: 00:33:41

And I think that's what coaching does.

Rob: 00:33:43

And I think that's what therapy does.

Rob: 00:33:45

I think therapy has its place, but I also think it overspreads.

Rob: 00:33:49

I think a lot of people will go to a lot of therapists who are schooled in a

Rob: 00:33:52

certain thought of therapy and they'll frame everything in that thought,

Rob: 00:33:57

whether it's, it happened from your childhood or it happened because of these

Rob: 00:34:01

different parts or it happened because of, whatever kind of therapy, and often

Rob: 00:34:05

all they're doing is giving a story.

Rob: 00:34:07

And people can either become trapped in the story or they can go round and round.

Rob: 00:34:12

So they spend years telling different stories and seeing different therapies

Rob: 00:34:15

and getting different stories, but never actually changing what happens.

Rob: 00:34:18

I think you have to look at all of these things as tools.

Rob: 00:34:21

And I think we look at the big currency is we want.

Rob: 00:34:25

Like you and I want to help people make, we want to be of value to people.

Rob: 00:34:30

We want to see people thrive and optimize.

Rob: 00:34:33

And I, so I think the key is you have to look at what's their framework?

Rob: 00:34:38

What's their mentality of how are they thinking?

Rob: 00:34:41

What's the barrier?

Rob: 00:34:42

What's the block and what's the best way of getting over that?

Rob: 00:34:45

And for some people that will be therapy.

Rob: 00:34:48

For some people that will be coaching, for some people that will be mentoring

Rob: 00:34:51

mediation or facilitation or whatever.

Rob: 00:34:54

I think all of them are tools.

Rob: 00:34:56

Depending on the personality, depending on the situation they can all be used.

Rob: 00:35:02

But the main thing is they have to empower someone.

Rob: 00:35:05

They have to make someone.

Rob: 00:35:07

Take responsibility and help someone see how they can do

Rob: 00:35:11

better, be better, feel better.

Rob: 00:35:14

Yeah,

Giannis: 00:35:14

exactly.

Giannis: 00:35:15

Exactly.

Giannis: 00:35:15

Yeah.

Giannis: 00:35:16

It is the final goal for everyone, right?

Giannis: 00:35:19

Because everyone is like a different beast.

Giannis: 00:35:21

And from what we said before, and I think for everyone, everyone has the

Giannis: 00:35:26

same goal to, to see people change something, to see people grow, see people,

Giannis: 00:35:32

have more value and empower people.

Giannis: 00:35:35

Yeah.

Giannis: 00:35:35

I think it's mostly to find what, who beast fits better to your personality

Giannis: 00:35:41

and to what you want to be and carry on.

Giannis: 00:35:44

I have a motto saying every coach should have another coach, a therapist.

Giannis: 00:35:49

And the supervision, and I have a therapist, I have a life

Giannis: 00:35:54

coach, it's because I am a coach.

Giannis: 00:35:57

I can manage my own priorities, challenges, issues, it's, yeah, it's

Giannis: 00:36:03

not possible because Sometimes I did that from, I did that to the results

Giannis: 00:36:08

and this is a trap, so it's impossible to, to every time to say to do what

Giannis: 00:36:13

you say and to do what you believe.

Giannis: 00:36:15

I totally believe I have to go detach from the results, but there are

Giannis: 00:36:19

also some times where I chase the next dopamine hit, it's it's all of

Giannis: 00:36:24

this like a huge journey about work.

Giannis: 00:36:26

It's about getting closer to your full potential and if you have people around

Giannis: 00:36:31

you, helping you get closer to that, I think you are on the right, right path.

Rob: 00:36:36

We all have blind spots.

Rob: 00:36:38

People are a closed system and sometimes we need new information

Rob: 00:36:42

into that system to open it up.

Rob: 00:36:44

One of the things I always think of when there's always like new fads and

Rob: 00:36:49

this is the greatest thing and whatever, and I always think 2000 years ago you

Rob: 00:36:53

look at you like Jesus, the Buddha, Lao Tzu, people like that they went

Rob: 00:36:59

through the same things that everyone who's striving in personal development

Rob: 00:37:03

or spirituality or whichever field.

Rob: 00:37:05

It's basically the same thing and they didn't necessarily have therapists or

Rob: 00:37:09

coaches or something, but they had someone who was there was always their wise elder.

Rob: 00:37:14

There was always someone who'd been through it, the

Rob: 00:37:17

mentor those kinds of things.

Rob: 00:37:20

So I think I attach less significance to the actual label and more to

Rob: 00:37:26

the relationship and the key.

Rob: 00:37:28

And I think it is.

Rob: 00:37:30

In the end, all it is we all need to see beyond we need a fresh set of eyes.

Rob: 00:37:35

There's certain things that we can't look at ourself.

Rob: 00:37:37

And so I think that's what people like you and I can do is give people a different

Rob: 00:37:44

some different either idea or insight or fresh pair of eyes on their situation.

Giannis: 00:37:50

Yeah, exactly.

Giannis: 00:37:51

And if we look back at the history, we'll see a lot of fortune tellers, probably

Giannis: 00:37:57

it was in the mythology, we see Calchas Mopsus, a lot of fortune tellers in the

Giannis: 00:38:03

Greek mythology and you know what they did is like they they were looking at

Giannis: 00:38:10

the future, this is their charisma, let's say they're unique talent or something.

Giannis: 00:38:15

And people back then, they really needed these people.

Giannis: 00:38:19

They really had someone to tell them, probably in our imagination

Giannis: 00:38:24

is old man with, a white beard or something, and super wise and

Giannis: 00:38:30

from experiences, life, et cetera.

Giannis: 00:38:34

But everyone wanted someone like him, to support them, to tell some different

Giannis: 00:38:40

opinion, a different perspective.

Giannis: 00:38:42

To challenge them sometimes, to advise them, it's also fine, if

Giannis: 00:38:46

that fits to you and yeah, this is what all of us together do nowadays.

Giannis: 00:38:52

We don't have fortune tellers, we don't have Old man with white beard

Giannis: 00:38:57

or something, but we have coaches, we have therapists, mentors, consultants,

Giannis: 00:39:02

facilitators, whatever they are, and yeah, find what fits to your personality

Giannis: 00:39:07

and pick one, start with someone.

Giannis: 00:39:09

I think this is how it goes.

Giannis: 00:39:11

This is how you get closer to what you want.

Giannis: 00:39:14

It's not embarrassing to ask for help.

Giannis: 00:39:16

For me, it's like a superpower because personally, I didn't

Giannis: 00:39:21

ask for help as a leader.

Giannis: 00:39:22

It was a period that I was like, super bad as a leader.

Giannis: 00:39:25

And I really I understand it.

Giannis: 00:39:27

I understood it after some period and because I couldn't ask for help

Giannis: 00:39:32

and it's super bad, not only for me, but for the rest of the team, because

Giannis: 00:39:37

everyone is was living in the dark.

Giannis: 00:39:39

And I took the decisions.

Giannis: 00:39:40

I wanted to control everything.

Giannis: 00:39:42

I was like a control freak or something.

Giannis: 00:39:44

It's bring everything to the surface.

Giannis: 00:39:47

It's this is how it goes.

Giannis: 00:39:48

Like you said, I think in one of your posts, like we are like a computer

Giannis: 00:39:55

with a lot of history, with a lot of folders that we haven't met yet.

Giannis: 00:40:01

We haven't unfolded yet.

Giannis: 00:40:03

And it's time to double click, this is it, double click in those folders

Giannis: 00:40:07

and see what it is, what is inside.

Giannis: 00:40:10

Yeah.

Giannis: 00:40:10

It's, it sounds simple.

Giannis: 00:40:12

It seems simple, the first step is to start.

Rob: 00:40:15

Momentum has great power in it.

Rob: 00:40:17

Then just one more question before I let you go.

Rob: 00:40:20

You talked about like the old man with the white hair and all of this kind of thing.

Rob: 00:40:23

If you look at all the examples from culture, from films, from TV

Rob: 00:40:28

shows and things, who would be the character that you see yourself

Rob: 00:40:31

like or would like to be like?

Rob: 00:40:34

Like to be his old man.

Rob: 00:40:36

In your role as a coach and as a leader.

Rob: 00:40:38

Developing others.

Rob: 00:40:40

Is there a role model you want to be?

Rob: 00:40:42

A Yoda or do you wanna be a Gandalf or a Dumbledore or those kind of roles?

Rob: 00:40:48

Yeah,

Giannis: 00:40:49

yeah.

Giannis: 00:40:49

I understand your other question.

Giannis: 00:40:51

I always want to be, let's say, really invisible in the room.

Giannis: 00:40:55

This is my approach in coaching.

Giannis: 00:40:57

So I'm not a centric person.

Giannis: 00:41:00

The coach here, the team is the center of the session.

Giannis: 00:41:03

I don't want to talk a lot.

Giannis: 00:41:05

So it's like silence for me is power.

Giannis: 00:41:08

And do you remember the old man from Pocahontas film?

Rob: 00:41:13

I've never seen that, but Yeah,

Giannis: 00:41:15

I think this is it.

Giannis: 00:41:16

It's like an old man sitting at his chair and listening deeply with

Giannis: 00:41:23

Empathy and compassion and talks or ask questions whenever it's asked

Rob: 00:41:29

for that.

Rob: 00:41:30

Okay.

Rob: 00:41:30

Yes, that's that's why I saw with you have a noble strength and an ability

Rob: 00:41:36

a patience to wait for the result.

Rob: 00:41:40

I can see that.

Rob: 00:41:41

Okay.

Rob: 00:41:42

And if someone wanted to reach out and see if coaching with you would work for

Rob: 00:41:47

them where should they get in touch?

Rob: 00:41:49

What should they do?

Giannis: 00:41:50

LinkedIn is the best way.

Giannis: 00:41:53

It's Giannis Chatzidis and you can DM me ask your question, yeah, whatever,

Giannis: 00:41:59

my DM is always open, feel free, don't hesitate, it's not embarrassing.

Giannis: 00:42:03

It's fine.

Giannis: 00:42:04

So yeah, on

Rob: 00:42:05

LinkedIn is the best way.

Rob: 00:42:06

Thank you.

Rob: 00:42:07

Giannis is been fascinating to hear your journey to here.

Rob: 00:42:11

What makes you and I'm going to have to go and look at Pocahontas now.

Giannis: 00:42:15

Yeah, it was my pleasure.