Sharpening The Next Generation Of Leaders With Waldemar Zimmer

Waldemar: 00:00:00

I was born in Kazakhstan, raised in Germany,

Waldemar: 00:00:02

and currently I'm based in Italy.

Waldemar: 00:00:04

So I moved to Italy in 2015 to fall forward for job, basically for business.

Waldemar: 00:00:09

And I supposed to stay a couple of years.

Waldemar: 00:00:11

I stayed four years.

Waldemar: 00:00:12

Then I went back to Germany, didn't like it.

Waldemar: 00:00:15

Come back to Italy.

Waldemar: 00:00:16

Yeah now I'm here based and not planning to move back to Germany.

Waldemar: 00:00:20

Maybe in a few years time, I don't know.

Waldemar: 00:00:22

I will go still explore some other Southern European countries.

Waldemar: 00:00:26

Spain, Portugal are interesting destinations.

Waldemar: 00:00:29

So we'll see.

Rob: 00:00:30

The climate's much

Waldemar: 00:00:31

better, isn't it?

Waldemar: 00:00:32

Yeah.

Waldemar: 00:00:32

Yeah.

Waldemar: 00:00:32

It's it's climate.

Waldemar: 00:00:34

It's the life, the quality of life.

Waldemar: 00:00:37

I enjoyed it more, the food, the people, it's everything bit

Waldemar: 00:00:41

more like people are happier.

Waldemar: 00:00:44

It seems like people are happier.

Waldemar: 00:00:45

In Germany, what I got what I was struggling with because then

Waldemar: 00:00:48

it was also COVID because it was 2019 to 20 21 when I went back.

Waldemar: 00:00:52

People were a lot complaining.

Waldemar: 00:00:54

It was just terrible in my opinion.

Waldemar: 00:00:56

So it was really yeah, draining some, I felt no energy.

Waldemar: 00:01:01

So it was a whole nother story when you look into the South

Waldemar: 00:01:04

and European countries, people are wide, open, easygoing.

Waldemar: 00:01:08

So yeah it's

Rob: 00:01:09

nice.

Rob: 00:01:09

Whereabouts in Germany.

Waldemar: 00:01:10

I've been living close to Cologne.

Waldemar: 00:01:12

Cologne, yeah, the last years I was in Dusseldorf.

Waldemar: 00:01:16

North Rhine Westphalia, it's in Western Germany.

Waldemar: 00:01:18

Close to the border of Netherlands.

Waldemar: 00:01:21

Okay.

Rob: 00:01:21

And where are you in

Waldemar: 00:01:22

Italy?

Waldemar: 00:01:22

North of Italy, Bologna.

Waldemar: 00:01:24

It's actually a good strategic place to be because it's between Rome and

Waldemar: 00:01:28

Milan and it has a great connection with the train, fast trains.

Waldemar: 00:01:33

So you can reach basically all the hotspots like Florence, Venice.

Waldemar: 00:01:38

Milan, Rome.

Waldemar: 00:01:40

So whenever people are coming to Italy, I'm telling them stay in Bologna because

Waldemar: 00:01:43

you enjoy really the nice city because it's a smaller city than Rome and Milan.

Waldemar: 00:01:49

You can really enjoy everything here.

Waldemar: 00:01:51

And when you want to visit other cities that are interesting

Waldemar: 00:01:55

you just take the train.

Waldemar: 00:01:56

It's quite cheap transportation here and you go.

Waldemar: 00:02:00

Visit the other places and then you go back to Bologna.

Rob: 00:02:02

So so you've grown up in one culture and you've moved Yeah, you've

Rob: 00:02:06

experienced really three, major ones.

Rob: 00:02:08

You remember much of Kazakhstan?

Waldemar: 00:02:10

Yes and no.

Waldemar: 00:02:11

So I remember, of course like the first, because I was very young.

Waldemar: 00:02:15

I was six years old when I came to Germany.

Waldemar: 00:02:18

But I was raised in a quite Russian way.

Waldemar: 00:02:21

So it was USSR back then.

Waldemar: 00:02:23

So my mom is Russian.

Waldemar: 00:02:24

My dad is German, born in Kazakhstan, but German parents.

Waldemar: 00:02:28

But I was raised basically the Russian way.

Waldemar: 00:02:30

So with the Russian culture, food and everything like what's

Waldemar: 00:02:34

around the Russian culture.

Waldemar: 00:02:35

I had never the feeling this connection with Kazakhstan, with the country,

Waldemar: 00:02:40

but with the Russian culture, yes.

Waldemar: 00:02:42

So I'm really connected to that.

Waldemar: 00:02:43

So from family standpoint, yeah.

Rob: 00:02:46

I have a little experience.

Rob: 00:02:47

I did a martial art Sistema, which is actually it was a Russian in

Rob: 00:02:52

Canada, Vladimir who he brought it to the West, but it was very

Rob: 00:02:56

rooted in Russian orthodoxy.

Rob: 00:02:59

There was a lot of deep, profound ideas.

Rob: 00:03:01

It's like you hit someone to take the aggression away.

Rob: 00:03:03

You don't hit to destroy, you hit to remove the tension and it

Rob: 00:03:07

was a lot about just a different way of relating to people.

Rob: 00:03:11

It was more.

Rob: 00:03:12

Inclusive than like a western.

Rob: 00:03:14

Yeah.

Rob: 00:03:14

It was more about the group and more about it's remove ego of those kind of things.

Rob: 00:03:19

Like it didn't have any belt system.

Rob: 00:03:21

It didn't have rankings.

Rob: 00:03:23

It was about you just doing the best you can do rather than.

Rob: 00:03:26

Yeah.

Rob: 00:03:27

Where a lot of martial arts are very you wait till these have, yeah, you

Rob: 00:03:30

will have your place and it's, yeah,

Waldemar: 00:03:35

you got it.

Waldemar: 00:03:36

I'm very passionate about martial arts myself, and this is something

Waldemar: 00:03:39

that definitely is coming from my Russian side, because in Russia.

Waldemar: 00:03:43

You are born into like combat sports a bit.

Waldemar: 00:03:46

So there are in schools, some of starting from my father, my uncle, you are half

Waldemar: 00:03:51

like wrestling and the wrestling Sambo and boxing are basically like the school sport

Waldemar: 00:03:57

subjects, and There, I totally agree.

Waldemar: 00:03:59

And what's with your experience?

Waldemar: 00:04:01

So that the way they are living martial arts and all the combat sports around

Waldemar: 00:04:06

is more like creating a community.

Waldemar: 00:04:08

Creating the sense of discipline, of work ethic, of dedication.

Waldemar: 00:04:14

So it's really, This is fascinating.

Waldemar: 00:04:16

So because Russia and the former Soviet Union, it has so many different

Waldemar: 00:04:21

influences from different cultures.

Waldemar: 00:04:23

They have a huge Muslim culture there and Islam culture, and they

Waldemar: 00:04:27

have a huge religious background.

Waldemar: 00:04:30

So it's really fascinating.

Waldemar: 00:04:31

The people I've connected with from this part of the world also.

Waldemar: 00:04:36

After I grew up in business and was always a lot of exchange about these

Waldemar: 00:04:40

topics how you get raised with these values from the Russian culture.

Rob: 00:04:45

So what martial arts did you do?

Waldemar: 00:04:46

Now I'm still into boxing.

Waldemar: 00:04:48

I was doing Muay Thai for 17 years.

Waldemar: 00:04:52

Then I stopped.

Waldemar: 00:04:53

I was active, actually, I was fighting in 2013, 2014.

Waldemar: 00:04:59

Then I injured myself, broke my hand, nothing serious, but back

Waldemar: 00:05:02

then I was working and my employer was not very happy about that.

Waldemar: 00:05:06

So it was basically, you choose.

Waldemar: 00:05:08

You go, it's working still as a mechanic.

Waldemar: 00:05:10

So you have to work with your hands.

Waldemar: 00:05:11

So it was basically choose the sport or your job, choose the job,

Waldemar: 00:05:15

still continue with the sports.

Waldemar: 00:05:17

And in COVID, I started with Brazilian jujitsu.

Waldemar: 00:05:19

I started with jujitsu grappling because funny story, my.

Waldemar: 00:05:23

neighbor in Dusseldorf.

Waldemar: 00:05:25

Back then he came from Mexico and he was a jujitsu instructor of purple belt.

Waldemar: 00:05:29

And during COVID, he had a nice place.

Waldemar: 00:05:32

And in his in his flat, he had a room where he basically had all the mats

Waldemar: 00:05:37

and equipment to practice jujitsu.

Waldemar: 00:05:39

And he was doing somehow like Illegal private classes for jiu jitsu students and

Waldemar: 00:05:44

we catched up because we were talking a lot about UFC and we were watching fights

Waldemar: 00:05:47

together and he was like, Oh, come over.

Waldemar: 00:05:49

I'm going to show you some moves.

Waldemar: 00:05:50

And I really fell in love with how exhausting this sport is.

Waldemar: 00:05:53

I started to to roll a bit with him to wrestle to do that kind of stuff.

Waldemar: 00:05:58

And yeah, ever since I'm practicing that as well.

Waldemar: 00:06:00

So I'm not trying to do three times for a week combat sports, mixing it up.

Waldemar: 00:06:05

Nothing like too strict, nothing too, no competition but I really

Waldemar: 00:06:10

enjoyed the community and the mental and physical benefits, of course.

Rob: 00:06:15

Yeah.

Rob: 00:06:16

It teaches you a lot as well.

Rob: 00:06:17

I used to box just as a teen for a couple of years.

Rob: 00:06:20

You have to be so fit that I remember is the only time I ran.

Rob: 00:06:23

If you weren't fit enough, it was like, you were so tired in the end that you'd

Rob: 00:06:27

rather be punched than hold your arms up.

Rob: 00:06:28

So it's really tough to do that and any kind of job just

Rob: 00:06:32

because it takes so much time.

Rob: 00:06:33

I only did a couple of sessions of.

Rob: 00:06:35

Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, but if I'd known younger, I would have spent much more

Rob: 00:06:39

time because I've got my girlfriend's two boys, they do Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

Rob: 00:06:43

So I think that's, it's a lot of fun, but it's also the most

Waldemar: 00:06:46

useful.

Waldemar: 00:06:46

Yes, I think so for self defense, for mental strength, for

Waldemar: 00:06:51

physical strength it's the best thing you can do in my opinion.

Waldemar: 00:06:55

I wish also I would have discovered that way sooner because I see

Waldemar: 00:06:59

that I'm very stiff in the hips.

Waldemar: 00:07:01

So I'm really struggling.

Waldemar: 00:07:02

I'm doing a lot of mobility every day, stretching out, but I'm so stiff in

Waldemar: 00:07:06

the hips that you're really limited in certain aspects of doing that.

Waldemar: 00:07:10

If you want to reach a certain level, if you just want to have fun and you

Waldemar: 00:07:14

have a good instructor, which I have who like somehow goes down to your level,

Waldemar: 00:07:19

he creates this flow moment where he's like above, just above your skill set.

Waldemar: 00:07:24

And he's going probably 30 percent while I'm giving 112.

Waldemar: 00:07:28

But that's the way like they know how to balance that.

Waldemar: 00:07:30

And then it becomes really fun for me.

Waldemar: 00:07:32

And it's completely crazy.

Waldemar: 00:07:34

I'm doing that.

Waldemar: 00:07:35

Once per week, maybe because after a session, I'm so exhausted.

Waldemar: 00:07:40

My arms are sore for one week like for just grabbing them and holding

Waldemar: 00:07:45

the people, it's incredible.

Waldemar: 00:07:47

Yeah,

Rob: 00:07:47

I started to do cause this systema that I went to is like two

Rob: 00:07:50

and a half hours is the nearest class.

Rob: 00:07:52

So I thought I would do it, but just looked at my age.

Rob: 00:07:55

I looked at how long it's going to take to do it.

Rob: 00:07:56

I looked at, how many injuries and things and I just thought, it's just fitness now.

Rob: 00:08:00

But what I really, one of the things that really that I really

Rob: 00:08:03

enjoyed most about Systema was the first thing they do is most of what

Rob: 00:08:09

they teach is confronting fear.

Rob: 00:08:11

I've been in karate class, I never really liked oriental martial arts because there

Rob: 00:08:14

always seemed to be a lot of ego in it.

Rob: 00:08:16

I was at karate and I'd gone cause I wanted my daughters to have

Rob: 00:08:19

some kind of thing and we used to go and I didn't really enjoy it.

Rob: 00:08:21

I remember there was a grading.

Rob: 00:08:22

And there was this like fifth Dan black belt or something came

Rob: 00:08:26

down and it was clearly a show.

Rob: 00:08:28

And it was like strictly judge or something.

Rob: 00:08:31

He sits and he is prancing about.

Rob: 00:08:32

And this one was like, you're doing this wrong and shouting

Rob: 00:08:34

to people, no, do it like this.

Rob: 00:08:35

And it was like very much entertainment.

Rob: 00:08:37

He was criticizing and picking at everyone.

Rob: 00:08:39

I was like, you're just wanting to make a show of yourself And yet everyone passed.

Rob: 00:08:44

I'm like, how can you like be ripping into people?

Rob: 00:08:48

First of all, whatever you do, there's gonna be Like 50 people go

Rob: 00:08:52

for a show grading or something.

Rob: 00:08:54

Some of them shouldn't pass because if they're passing then what's the grading?

Rob: 00:08:58

Yeah and but you can't be ripping in and going you're not doing this, right?

Rob: 00:09:01

You should be doing this.

Rob: 00:09:02

You should be doing this and then go.

Rob: 00:09:03

Yeah.

Rob: 00:09:04

Okay, you passed it's like it devalued it for me.

Rob: 00:09:07

Then the other thing I had was we very rarely did any actual it was all

Rob: 00:09:11

choreographed and you very rarely did any actual sparring and then I was sparring

Rob: 00:09:14

with this brown belt and because he was used to what he was doing, whereas I was

Rob: 00:09:19

used to boxing, so I knew how to score points and I was scoring points and I

Rob: 00:09:22

could see him getting wound up and then when he did get punched, he broke my rib.

Rob: 00:09:26

Oh my God.

Rob: 00:09:27

And it was.

Rob: 00:09:28

Yeah, it was just a frustration.

Rob: 00:09:29

It wasn't actually real.

Rob: 00:09:31

It was very choreographed and you do this and then you do this.

Rob: 00:09:35

So when I went to Systema, it was just like, okay, fine.

Rob: 00:09:37

And what they actually did was they did a lot of stuff like blindfolding you.

Rob: 00:09:41

So like I remember we did Systema camp and you do it blindfolded,

Rob: 00:09:44

walking through the woods.

Rob: 00:09:46

And so it was stuff like.

Rob: 00:09:48

They would push you into trees you had to avoid quickly.

Rob: 00:09:50

So it was a lot of things, but the first thing they taught you

Rob: 00:09:54

was breathing to manage your fear.

Rob: 00:09:56

And it was things like you would lay down and be punched and you

Rob: 00:09:59

would try to wind each other.

Rob: 00:10:01

So that you would learn how to recover.

Rob: 00:10:03

So when you were winded that you weren't.

Rob: 00:10:05

Because normally I think if you were in a karate fight or something and you

Rob: 00:10:08

got winded, it's like, it's a shock and you don't know how to deal with it.

Rob: 00:10:10

Yeah.

Rob: 00:10:11

Whereas the first thing they did was to teach you how to deal with fear and all

Rob: 00:10:16

of those things so that you were able to cope I think because it comes from it's

Rob: 00:10:20

a, or the story is it's a Spetsnaz thing.

Rob: 00:10:23

So they teach you the idea is that you're able to fight.

Rob: 00:10:26

Even when you're injured, not that you have to train to be at your best.

Rob: 00:10:29

So what were, would you say are the lessons that all of your

Rob: 00:10:33

experiences with martial arts have taught you and how does that inform

Rob: 00:10:36

and shape the work that you do.

Waldemar: 00:10:39

The biggest benefits that I always noticed and especially now

Waldemar: 00:10:43

noticing after this so many years doing martial arts and working out in general.

Waldemar: 00:10:47

I think that doing hard things, and this is not like the mental coach

Waldemar: 00:10:52

speaking that we used to, but doing hard things every day, somehow helps you

Waldemar: 00:10:58

really to live an easier life somehow,.

Waldemar: 00:11:01

I actually, I listened to a podcast from Andrew Huberman recently that

Waldemar: 00:11:05

they discovered very recently, actually a part in the brain.

Waldemar: 00:11:08

So please don't call me out on this specific term, but there is a

Waldemar: 00:11:11

part in the brain actually, which is growing with the fact of doing

Waldemar: 00:11:17

stuff that we don't want to do.

Waldemar: 00:11:19

And the interesting thing is that it's really growing only

Waldemar: 00:11:22

when we dislike something doing.

Waldemar: 00:11:24

So for example, if you do the first time a cold plunge and you hate it because

Waldemar: 00:11:28

it's cold, but then you are getting used to that and you suddenly become

Waldemar: 00:11:32

like, okay, it's nice I like that.

Waldemar: 00:11:34

The, it has no more effect on this growth of this specific area of the

Waldemar: 00:11:40

brain to surpass difficult situations.

Waldemar: 00:11:42

What he says is that you should try to find every day something that goes

Waldemar: 00:11:48

beyond this level of comfort that you have, even if you're doing a hard

Waldemar: 00:11:53

workout and you enjoy the workout, it means you need to work harder.

Waldemar: 00:11:56

I started somehow to follow this and the biggest benefit that I see is actually

Waldemar: 00:12:01

really to have a better focus in my life.

Waldemar: 00:12:05

Better focus on, on, on all aspects of life, business, private life,

Waldemar: 00:12:10

personal life goals, whatever.

Waldemar: 00:12:12

So it gives you somehow more clarity.

Waldemar: 00:12:15

In your mind.

Waldemar: 00:12:16

So when I work out, when I do hard things, independent of martial arts

Waldemar: 00:12:22

or just weightlifting or whatever I really try to push myself hard,

Waldemar: 00:12:27

always harder than the day before.

Waldemar: 00:12:29

This translates actually in a very relaxed day because I did something

Waldemar: 00:12:35

that I already didn't want to do.

Waldemar: 00:12:37

Throughout my entire life when I was doing martial arts when I was doing that

Waldemar: 00:12:41

and because it's you did it yourself.

Waldemar: 00:12:43

It's not nice to be punched in the face and Even if you're not having

Waldemar: 00:12:47

this fighting experience where there is a lot of fear also coming in.

Waldemar: 00:12:51

So what you said before that people, when they start fighting,

Waldemar: 00:12:54

they have to deal with the fear.

Waldemar: 00:12:56

You have to deal with the fear also when you're going into the sparring session,

Waldemar: 00:12:59

you have to do also with the fear when you are working hard towards a certain thing.

Waldemar: 00:13:05

You need to get used to that.

Waldemar: 00:13:07

So the real benefits that I see is that I was able to get used to do harder

Waldemar: 00:13:13

things used to, to complain less.

Waldemar: 00:13:16

Also, if you want.

Waldemar: 00:13:16

So really this had a big impact on my life to complain less and just push through it.

Waldemar: 00:13:22

Like in, in sports, when you see there is a three minutes timer, you are in a

Waldemar: 00:13:26

sparring session, you're completely dead and you're like, okay, I can't make it.

Waldemar: 00:13:30

And you see the clock ticking, you push through it and you say,

Waldemar: 00:13:33

okay, in three minutes, it's over.

Waldemar: 00:13:35

When you find the same situation in your life and you have to do something you

Waldemar: 00:13:38

don't want you somehow remember this and say, okay, this is not forever.

Waldemar: 00:13:42

I'm just going to push through it and it will be over.

Waldemar: 00:13:45

Maybe it takes a week.

Waldemar: 00:13:46

Maybe it takes two weeks, maybe one month, but it will be over one day.

Waldemar: 00:13:50

Yeah.

Waldemar: 00:13:51

So this is something that I really transferred from this.

Waldemar: 00:13:54

Daily workout and martial arts.

Waldemar: 00:13:56

Yeah,

Rob: 00:13:56

that's Yeah, that's something that I noticed.

Rob: 00:14:00

In Systema I remember when we were doing something that we were doing an exercise

Rob: 00:14:04

it wasn't to be winded or anything and I was Sparring with someone or fight And he

Rob: 00:14:09

winded me And it was, like you're winded.

Rob: 00:14:11

And then there's everyone's around and you're like, okay,

Rob: 00:14:14

I've been trained for this.

Rob: 00:14:15

I have to get my breath back.

Rob: 00:14:16

And he's he punched me and he wasn't supposed to wind me.

Rob: 00:14:19

And it was unfair and he shouldn't have done this.

Rob: 00:14:21

And there's all this kind of whining in your head.

Rob: 00:14:23

And then it's Oh, look, they're looking.

Rob: 00:14:24

Look, he's looking at me and you should be recovered quicker than this.

Rob: 00:14:27

And so there's all this kind of like public shame and it's not

Rob: 00:14:31

feeling good enough and it's feeling sorry for yourself.

Rob: 00:14:34

And that's really what I learned from that and the same thing when I started ending

Rob: 00:14:38

the shower with a cold shower and you step in the shower and first it's fuck you.

Rob: 00:14:41

And you do it, you can do it from a kind of hate of I'm going to be defiant.

Rob: 00:14:44

And and eventually after a while, it just, it's just Okay.

Rob: 00:14:47

It just is, and you just accept it.

Rob: 00:14:49

Yeah.

Rob: 00:14:49

And you're learning that to get to that place of acceptance quicker.

Rob: 00:14:54

I noticed that also as well my, both my daughters hated maths and

Rob: 00:14:58

I tried teaching them maths and they're like, no, not doing it.

Rob: 00:15:00

I'm not doing it.

Rob: 00:15:01

I'm not doing it.

Rob: 00:15:01

And the amount of resistance and then they'll go, okay, I did it.

Rob: 00:15:04

And then it's five minutes and it's done.

Rob: 00:15:05

So I noticed that myself and with other people.

Rob: 00:15:08

And when I hate the gym, it's Oh, I've got to get myself to go there.

Rob: 00:15:11

And then, Oh, and then it's all this kind of whining.

Rob: 00:15:13

So I can definitely see that there is definitely a muscle.

Rob: 00:15:18

And once you've been through it a few times, you can go,

Rob: 00:15:20

okay, you're just whining.

Rob: 00:15:21

Shut up and just do it.

Rob: 00:15:22

And I think how do I say this?

Rob: 00:15:23

In a kind way, but I think for all of us, like we can recognize it in ourself

Rob: 00:15:29

and we can go, okay, stop whining.

Rob: 00:15:30

But sometimes we see it in other people and we're like, okay, you just need

Rob: 00:15:34

to stop whining and just do the thing.

Rob: 00:15:35

But someone who maybe hasn't had that experience or that realization

Rob: 00:15:39

yet, we have to be able to get over.

Rob: 00:15:40

The same message by in a more, I don't know, can you give it in a softer way?

Waldemar: 00:15:46

Yeah.

Waldemar: 00:15:46

I agree on that.

Rob: 00:15:47

I'm getting a sense of your background, where you've come from.

Rob: 00:15:51

So now I'm interested in, so you've been talking a lot about a new age of leaders.

Waldemar: 00:15:56

Yes.

Waldemar: 00:15:56

Yeah.

Waldemar: 00:15:56

Leadership.

Waldemar: 00:15:57

New age leaders.

Waldemar: 00:15:58

Oh yeah.

Waldemar: 00:15:59

Let's call it everything.

Waldemar: 00:16:00

What's future leader.

Waldemar: 00:16:01

Yeah.

Waldemar: 00:16:01

That stuff.

Waldemar: 00:16:02

Yeah.

Rob: 00:16:02

So this is where, this is your focus is like training

Rob: 00:16:06

the next generation of leaders.

Rob: 00:16:07

Yeah.

Rob: 00:16:08

So where did this come from?

Rob: 00:16:09

What has been your experiences and what led you to this?

Waldemar: 00:16:13

It started basically from my own experience.

Waldemar: 00:16:15

So when I started working in corporate., it was actually a very

Waldemar: 00:16:18

funny story how I became a leader myself or how I actually got the

Waldemar: 00:16:22

ambition to become a leader myself.

Waldemar: 00:16:24

I started working at a very young age, 15 years old.

Waldemar: 00:16:27

Two decades now, 34, 2006.

Waldemar: 00:16:30

And I came back home complaining quite a lot with my dad, about my boss.

Waldemar: 00:16:33

I was like going this guy is absolutely, horse shit.

Waldemar: 00:16:36

I can't work with him.

Waldemar: 00:16:38

And he was like, why are you complaining?

Waldemar: 00:16:39

If you can do it better become your a leader yourself.

Waldemar: 00:16:42

Do something because this guy is in this position because he worked hard.

Waldemar: 00:16:45

Of course me as a 16 years old, it's like work harder while he's not doing a shit.

Waldemar: 00:16:50

No, it's not so hard.

Waldemar: 00:16:51

But then my father somehow planted this.

Waldemar: 00:16:54

This thought in my head, and I was like, okay, maybe I should do

Waldemar: 00:16:59

something better if I'm not in the opinion that he's doing a great job.

Waldemar: 00:17:02

So a few weeks after we had this chat, I actually quit my job as a technician, went

Waldemar: 00:17:08

to university, graduated from university in mechanical engineering, started having

Waldemar: 00:17:13

my vision to go towards leadership.

Waldemar: 00:17:15

And I was saying directly, I'm going to go all in, I want to be a CEO of a company.

Waldemar: 00:17:20

Back then the thought was being a CEO is being your own boss, but it's not so true.

Waldemar: 00:17:25

I was like, still a young naive.

Waldemar: 00:17:27

I was like, I need to be a CEO.

Waldemar: 00:17:29

And I started working on that.

Waldemar: 00:17:30

Went into project management because I wanted to see a broader

Waldemar: 00:17:33

picture of how the landscape is, how the company's functioning.

Waldemar: 00:17:37

Started moving up my way in, in the career and working with great

Waldemar: 00:17:41

people, leaders, bad people, leaders, and trying really to capture the

Waldemar: 00:17:45

essence of good, bad leadership.

Waldemar: 00:17:47

And I arrived at a certain point where I really I became a leader first time in

Waldemar: 00:17:52

2017, started to lead a small team, then growing into a managing director role,

Waldemar: 00:17:57

having 70 people, big responsibility.

Waldemar: 00:18:00

This is the moment where I started also to coach, where I became a coach

Waldemar: 00:18:03

myself because I knew I need some instruments, some assets to, to manage

Waldemar: 00:18:07

these people, especially in a young age.

Waldemar: 00:18:09

And So back then the focus was not so much on next generation

Waldemar: 00:18:13

leaders or what's going on.

Waldemar: 00:18:15

But once I reached that point where I was sitting together with other people

Waldemar: 00:18:20

on the table, I noticed, and I had the privilege, I call it privilege, at a very

Waldemar: 00:18:26

young age to be offer this opportunity.

Waldemar: 00:18:29

I worked hard for it, but I was offered this opportunity to participate to board

Waldemar: 00:18:33

meetings, steering meetings with really good people, high level professionals.

Waldemar: 00:18:39

They were all older than me, 15, 20 years plus.

Waldemar: 00:18:42

And I noticed While talking to them while talking about the business,

Waldemar: 00:18:46

how big actually the gap is between the workforce and what's going on in

Waldemar: 00:18:52

certain meetings on a board level.

Waldemar: 00:18:54

So I was asking myself, what's the reason?

Waldemar: 00:18:57

Is there a communication?

Waldemar: 00:18:59

Is there a lack of leadership skills?

Waldemar: 00:19:01

Is the organization not good?

Waldemar: 00:19:02

And there are a lot of reasons.

Waldemar: 00:19:04

There are so many different things to be considered, but Where I really started

Waldemar: 00:19:09

to work towards the next generation of leaders to work, how to build the next

Waldemar: 00:19:14

workforce was during my last experience.

Waldemar: 00:19:17

I got hired by a company for a promising project.

Waldemar: 00:19:20

I was leading an R and D department which was supporting a European

Waldemar: 00:19:24

project for battery manufacturing.

Waldemar: 00:19:26

It was great experience, 27 young people.

Waldemar: 00:19:29

And this company's leadership blew basically all the talent burned

Waldemar: 00:19:34

the talent within 16 months, 18 months including myself.

Waldemar: 00:19:37

So I left the company as well because there was a very difficult situation

Waldemar: 00:19:42

also in terms of company, but it was so evident that the company was

Waldemar: 00:19:46

not able to manage the people and there was multiple reasons for that.

Waldemar: 00:19:51

One of them was that leadership was not ready to work with the younger workforce

Waldemar: 00:19:58

and was not ready to support them in their needs and their development.

Waldemar: 00:20:03

And in my opinion, how companies can, that it's not about changing people.

Waldemar: 00:20:07

I'm not believing so much into improving, into changing people.

Waldemar: 00:20:12

I'm more into giving them an opportunity to do things differently because if you're

Waldemar: 00:20:16

a senior manager or if you're a younger manager, it actually doesn't matter.

Waldemar: 00:20:20

So when I talk about next generation leaders.

Waldemar: 00:20:23

It's of course, somehow with a point generational gap and generational

Waldemar: 00:20:27

transition, but on the other hand, next generation leadership for me is

Waldemar: 00:20:31

the way we do the way we lead people.

Waldemar: 00:20:34

Okay.

Waldemar: 00:20:34

So a next generation leader can be a senior leader, 60 years old.

Waldemar: 00:20:38

And the goal is, or my goal and my vision is not to change him or her.

Waldemar: 00:20:42

how things have been done, but offer an opportunity to do things differently.

Waldemar: 00:20:46

Because now we have a different landscape.

Waldemar: 00:20:49

We have a different world.

Waldemar: 00:20:50

And maybe it's my perception because I just also grew up in this, but

Waldemar: 00:20:55

I have the perception that things accelerated in a quite Let me say

Waldemar: 00:20:59

impressive way that of course COVID changed a lot of things and so on.

Waldemar: 00:21:03

But it's not only COVID it's everything around there changed

Waldemar: 00:21:06

so fast and that companies are struggling to adapt it to this change.

Waldemar: 00:21:11

At the same pace.

Waldemar: 00:21:13

So they're always a step behind.

Waldemar: 00:21:15

And in this moment, I have the feeling they are not even one

Waldemar: 00:21:17

step but two, three steps behind.

Waldemar: 00:21:19

So when I talk about next generation leaders, I'm actually well focused,

Waldemar: 00:21:23

of course, on working on the younger workforce and giving them the opportunity

Waldemar: 00:21:27

because I'm also a big believer into the fact that If you are a good

Waldemar: 00:21:30

leader or if you want to be a good leader you don't have to have 20 years

Waldemar: 00:21:33

of experience so you can be a good people leader also at the younger age.

Waldemar: 00:21:38

I saw it myself.

Waldemar: 00:21:40

I experienced myself.

Waldemar: 00:21:41

I got accepted by all the workforce.

Waldemar: 00:21:43

I was 30 years old managing director.

Waldemar: 00:21:45

People were 60 years old.

Waldemar: 00:21:46

They were following me as a as their leader because I have a certain approach.

Waldemar: 00:21:51

Towards this kind of people.

Waldemar: 00:21:53

And this is basically my mission.

Waldemar: 00:21:55

This is what I want to teach people how to basically go and explore a different

Waldemar: 00:22:00

opportunity, a different way to go and practice leadership rather than

Waldemar: 00:22:05

telling the same things that everybody's saying okay, we need to be empathic.

Waldemar: 00:22:08

You need to be open.

Waldemar: 00:22:09

You need to communicate.

Waldemar: 00:22:10

This is the theory and we need this, but then there is the practical

Waldemar: 00:22:14

part that we need to think about.

Waldemar: 00:22:17

How can we actually change, not change, how can we offer people the

Waldemar: 00:22:21

opportunity to think, behave and feel different about things and situations.

Rob: 00:22:26

So you've got the old way, the new way and then

Rob: 00:22:29

you've got think, feel, behave.

Rob: 00:22:30

So what would be the old way?

Waldemar: 00:22:32

The old way, not to finger point or something, I think the

Waldemar: 00:22:35

old way, the business world, it has seen different kinds of revolutions.

Waldemar: 00:22:39

We started somehow with industrial revolutions, then we go to information.

Waldemar: 00:22:43

revolution.

Waldemar: 00:22:43

And now it's more social, digital.

Waldemar: 00:22:46

And when you look in these free revolutions that we faced, the

Waldemar: 00:22:50

needs of the people, of course, were different and they changed.

Waldemar: 00:22:53

Today I made a post about loyalty and that loyalty never existed before.

Waldemar: 00:22:57

Why?

Waldemar: 00:22:57

Because my opinion.

Waldemar: 00:22:58

people, my grandparents, they were working for survival.

Waldemar: 00:23:02

Okay.

Waldemar: 00:23:03

So they had a job where the boss could treat them very bad.

Waldemar: 00:23:07

And they were going to work every day anyway, without complaining because job

Waldemar: 00:23:12

was food on the table for me, my family.

Waldemar: 00:23:15

Then already with my parents and with my generation,

Waldemar: 00:23:18

especially things changed a lot.

Waldemar: 00:23:20

We got options.

Waldemar: 00:23:21

We are more working towards a better lifestyle.

Waldemar: 00:23:24

Okay.

Waldemar: 00:23:25

We want a better life.

Waldemar: 00:23:26

This is where it comes.

Waldemar: 00:23:27

We want to be earning more.

Waldemar: 00:23:28

So we are able maybe to accept a job that is not fulfilling us.

Waldemar: 00:23:33

That's not so purposeful, but if it's paid well, it's good because we can buy

Waldemar: 00:23:37

nice things and we can live a good life.

Waldemar: 00:23:40

A better life that our parents had, maybe a bigger house, a fancy car.

Waldemar: 00:23:43

And now what we experience with the social revolution, we see that people

Waldemar: 00:23:47

are aiming for quality of life.

Waldemar: 00:23:49

They're not aiming anymore for having this nice things.

Waldemar: 00:23:52

First and foremost, they already have it.

Waldemar: 00:23:54

So their parents took care of that.

Waldemar: 00:23:56

They are now living in a basically good world.

Waldemar: 00:23:58

So most of them are like, okay, I don't care.

Waldemar: 00:24:01

Earning a lot of money.

Waldemar: 00:24:01

What I want is I want to have fun.

Waldemar: 00:24:03

I want to have freedom.

Waldemar: 00:24:04

I want to have purpose, flexibility, and all that stuff.

Waldemar: 00:24:07

The old way, if you look at this three stages, so the old way that this

Waldemar: 00:24:12

basically in between my grandparents and my parents was a lot of commands and

Waldemar: 00:24:16

control and the boss is always right.

Waldemar: 00:24:18

You come to work, this is your task, do it and not complain.

Waldemar: 00:24:22

And people were not complaining because they had this this need.

Waldemar: 00:24:26

Yeah.

Waldemar: 00:24:26

The basic need was to earn and to not upset your boss, because it

Waldemar: 00:24:30

could mean that you lose your job and then you don't earn anymore.

Rob: 00:24:33

Okay.

Rob: 00:24:34

A new world.

Rob: 00:24:34

So this is what I talk about as well, but I talk about it in a very different way.

Rob: 00:24:38

My whole thing, my background is relationships.

Rob: 00:24:41

And I don't think we ever needed the relationships that we need now.

Rob: 00:24:45

I don't think the old way, when you look at the industrial

Rob: 00:24:47

revolution, it's about logistics.

Rob: 00:24:49

It's about factories.

Rob: 00:24:50

It's about concrete things that you can see.

Rob: 00:24:52

And when you say, do you see the table over there?

Rob: 00:24:55

Can you take something from the table and put it on a desk over there?

Rob: 00:24:57

Everyone understands that because we can see it.

Rob: 00:25:00

But when you talk about I want you to improve the efficiency

Rob: 00:25:03

of this spreadsheet or something like that it's something nebulous.

Rob: 00:25:07

Yeah.

Rob: 00:25:08

And so there's an entirely different layer and different level

Rob: 00:25:12

of communication that we need.

Rob: 00:25:13

So when we're working in, someone's.

Rob: 00:25:16

I don't know, in finance or someone's in marketing and then they're talking

Rob: 00:25:20

about something that's abstract.

Rob: 00:25:22

The other person doesn't fully understand it.

Rob: 00:25:24

So we need the communication to be able to get something that they don't understand.

Rob: 00:25:27

Because it's not a job role that they like we all understand plumber.

Rob: 00:25:30

We all understand builder or something.

Rob: 00:25:32

So the communications needs are different, but also the amount that we need to

Rob: 00:25:37

work together and the amount like.

Rob: 00:25:39

If you're fed up and you're working in a factory, the factory still goes, it

Rob: 00:25:42

doesn't matter how happy you are, you can still press the button, you can

Rob: 00:25:45

have a supervisor who can watch it all whereas today no one can watch you and the

Rob: 00:25:51

ability, the difference in potential of what you can bring between you being happy

Rob: 00:25:56

and you being miserable is you're going to be so much more creative, you're going to

Rob: 00:25:59

be much more open, you're going to have, It only tells you how to have an idea.

Rob: 00:26:03

Say if you're a technology company, someone has an idea for a new app, that

Rob: 00:26:06

could be a billion dollar app idea.

Rob: 00:26:08

And the difference between that idea.

Rob: 00:26:11

To anything is how much, how creative the person is, how free they feel able

Rob: 00:26:16

to communicate the idea, to share the idea, how supportive the environment

Rob: 00:26:19

is to take that idea and implement it.

Rob: 00:26:21

So there's so much more value.

Rob: 00:26:24

And I think that's what, that's the difference that you're talking about in

Rob: 00:26:28

that we, back when I look at my parents.

Rob: 00:26:30

My dad worked for Kodak for 45 years.

Rob: 00:26:34

And the idea then was you would find a job and you'd stay in that job and you'd

Rob: 00:26:38

find a job that you could stay for life.

Rob: 00:26:40

Yeah.

Rob: 00:26:40

Retiring.

Rob: 00:26:41

Yes.

Rob: 00:26:41

Yeah.

Rob: 00:26:42

It was even my age that, it's like, Oh, people changing their jobs all the time.

Rob: 00:26:46

And now.

Rob: 00:26:48

Yeah, we are so rich that people don't, no one needs to work, in the Western

Rob: 00:26:53

world, there's enough of a security blanket that you're going to be okay.

Rob: 00:26:57

You're going to survive.

Rob: 00:26:58

You're still going to have an iPhone.

Rob: 00:26:59

You can probably still play on the Xbox.

Rob: 00:27:01

You can watch TV.

Rob: 00:27:02

Nothing bad's going to happen.

Rob: 00:27:03

And companies, yes, that's what companies, they need and especially

Rob: 00:27:08

today so this might be something that you can help me with.

Rob: 00:27:10

So people of my generation so I'm 52 soon.

Rob: 00:27:14

And for me, I talked to my daughters and that, and they've got completely different

Rob: 00:27:18

view of the world, and for someone like us we're now having to adapt to trans and

Rob: 00:27:23

it's everything that we were built to.

Rob: 00:27:25

To grow up with these are the solid foundations.

Rob: 00:27:28

And so a lot, so you hear a lot of people and everyone's talking about

Rob: 00:27:31

Gen Z and millennials and they're entitled and all of this stuff.

Rob: 00:27:34

So I'm interested to understand your views.

Rob: 00:27:37

So when someone complains to you, say, Oh, Gen Z doesn't want to work today.

Rob: 00:27:40

And what do they want?

Rob: 00:27:41

Maybe they want everything and they want it now.

Rob: 00:27:44

So what's your understanding and your insight to that?

Waldemar: 00:27:47

First, I would like to leave a first small comment on the

Waldemar: 00:27:49

communication because I really like and follow your content very actively

Waldemar: 00:27:53

due to that because communication.

Waldemar: 00:27:55

I think it's one of the people skills that will ensure that you're doing fine

Waldemar: 00:27:59

in life today because This one thing and I see communication from two standpoints.

Waldemar: 00:28:05

So you have clearly like the verbal nonverbal communication.

Waldemar: 00:28:08

This is one thing.

Waldemar: 00:28:09

But what it's more important is especially in the context of leadership,

Waldemar: 00:28:13

and now we'll make the bridge to your question is whenever you are

Waldemar: 00:28:16

in the room and no matter which.

Waldemar: 00:28:19

To which generation you belong yourself.

Waldemar: 00:28:22

Now, nowadays you will have a multi generational audience.

Waldemar: 00:28:25

So you come into a meeting and you will have senior leadership.

Waldemar: 00:28:29

You will have a young people just hired.

Waldemar: 00:28:32

So gen Z, millennials, boomers will have everybody around the table and

Waldemar: 00:28:36

the real key and the real skill, the secret skill and communication

Waldemar: 00:28:40

is to communicate in a way that you get everybody on board, right?

Waldemar: 00:28:45

So you have to be really good in delivering a message that is

Waldemar: 00:28:50

understood on all the different layers of different generations.

Waldemar: 00:28:53

So this is something that I really Proactively studying.

Waldemar: 00:28:57

So how can this be done to ensure that you are perceived on all

Waldemar: 00:29:02

different levels of generations?

Waldemar: 00:29:04

Same way.

Waldemar: 00:29:05

Just wanted to add this to your communication topic.

Waldemar: 00:29:07

When people come and I hear that often actually especially from the older

Waldemar: 00:29:11

generation, when we speak about the young people and they don't want I've been

Waldemar: 00:29:16

actually Friday and Monday yesterday morning, I was delivering training to

Waldemar: 00:29:21

a technical college, 20 years old guys.

Waldemar: 00:29:24

So I was not delivering training.

Waldemar: 00:29:26

I was there as a guest for a testimonial speaking about my experience and so on.

Waldemar: 00:29:30

And I was so surprised about how Great, these people are, because

Waldemar: 00:29:36

there, there was a session where I had the opportunity to speak and

Waldemar: 00:29:39

then there was a smart questions.

Waldemar: 00:29:40

So they had the opportunity to ask questions they typed it in digital.

Waldemar: 00:29:44

And then there was like a quick question round and the questions

Waldemar: 00:29:47

they made were made me understand how well prepared they are actually.

Waldemar: 00:29:51

So they really understand what they want.

Waldemar: 00:29:54

And they really see that there was a shift, but I think somehow they

Waldemar: 00:29:57

feel still misunderstood from other generations, because when we speak

Waldemar: 00:30:02

about "they are lazy", they are not

Waldemar: 00:30:04

" They don't want to work.

Waldemar: 00:30:05

They don't have clear ideas".

Waldemar: 00:30:07

It's because we are not listening.

Waldemar: 00:30:08

This is a clear stereotype that we're having say, okay, they are 20

Waldemar: 00:30:12

years old and they continue studying because they don't want to work.

Waldemar: 00:30:16

I started working with 16.

Waldemar: 00:30:17

They are still studying their master with 36, and there is okay, all this stuff.

Waldemar: 00:30:23

But when you are actually speaking to this generation and you try to understand them

Waldemar: 00:30:28

rather than making assumptions about what they're doing or what they're not doing.

Waldemar: 00:30:32

You really fast understand what they really need.

Waldemar: 00:30:35

And if a company leader, a person, a parent tries really to understand

Waldemar: 00:30:41

what is their need and supports act as a sponsor towards these needs I

Waldemar: 00:30:47

think a lot of good things can happen.

Waldemar: 00:30:49

Not all things will be aligned with what is maybe our own ideas

Waldemar: 00:30:55

of how things should be done.

Waldemar: 00:30:57

But this is at the same time the good thing when it comes to have Different

Waldemar: 00:31:01

generations when it comes to have different cultures among the table.

Waldemar: 00:31:04

Also when I speak about cross cultural communication and management, and I

Waldemar: 00:31:09

say the exact same things when working with different generations, try to

Waldemar: 00:31:12

bring as much as possible diversity to the table and pick cherry from every

Waldemar: 00:31:18

single generation, every single culture.

Waldemar: 00:31:20

If you do you really get the best result.

Waldemar: 00:31:23

I guarantee that everybody has something to add to the discussion.

Waldemar: 00:31:27

It's just about our own willingness to extract this information and

Waldemar: 00:31:32

to use it to our own benefit.

Rob: 00:31:34

When you talk about communicating a message in different ways what

Rob: 00:31:38

specifically, in what specific different ways are you, like when you're coming

Rob: 00:31:41

up with a message, how are you thinking about portraying it in what different

Rob: 00:31:46

ways as in the different words or as in the different references?

Waldemar: 00:31:49

I think it's all together.

Waldemar: 00:31:51

So it's about verbal nonverbal communication towards

Waldemar: 00:31:54

a diversified audience.

Waldemar: 00:31:56

So it's a blend of things that we need to consider in my opinion.

Waldemar: 00:31:59

The easy thing is when I speak to Gen Z audience or to senior management

Waldemar: 00:32:05

audience, you and I, we adopt the way we talk, we speak, we are

Waldemar: 00:32:09

showing, let me, a different posture.

Waldemar: 00:32:12

Maybe when I speak to the young people, I speak like they're speak,

Waldemar: 00:32:15

I'm really like easygoing with them.

Waldemar: 00:32:17

And this is where I create also the great connection to them.

Waldemar: 00:32:21

Great relationships.

Waldemar: 00:32:22

So I'm somehow showing them that I'm not superior than them.

Waldemar: 00:32:26

On the other hand, when I speak with senior executives, I show respect

Waldemar: 00:32:30

for their seniority, for their experience, for how far they came.

Waldemar: 00:32:34

So I adopt that.

Waldemar: 00:32:35

Now you're coming together and you bring both together.

Waldemar: 00:32:38

If I would straight away communicate, like I do with senior executives, I

Waldemar: 00:32:42

will immediately lose the young people.

Waldemar: 00:32:44

If I start speaking slang, young people, senior executives would be like, Oh

Waldemar: 00:32:49

my God, this guy is not he's crazy.

Waldemar: 00:32:51

He's not reliable.

Waldemar: 00:32:52

He's not he's not a professional, so I think it's it's really tricky to find

Waldemar: 00:32:56

out how to communicate efficiently when you are trying to address such

Waldemar: 00:33:02

a big gap or to close such a big gap in terms of communication and

Waldemar: 00:33:07

understanding on the generational.

Waldemar: 00:33:09

So what I do usually is I blended, I try to stay very composed and professional

Waldemar: 00:33:15

in my language, in my body language.

Waldemar: 00:33:17

But I use very simple communication to not lose the younger audience.

Waldemar: 00:33:23

So to make them understand that I care.

Waldemar: 00:33:26

That they understand what I have to say.

Waldemar: 00:33:28

So this helped me a lot when I was delivering communication meetings back

Waldemar: 00:33:32

then when I was a general manager.

Waldemar: 00:33:33

So I did every few months communication meeting and what I see from senior

Waldemar: 00:33:37

management, for example, when they are doing a communication meeting

Waldemar: 00:33:41

and sharing the company results and new projects and whatever.

Waldemar: 00:33:44

So what are they saying?

Waldemar: 00:33:46

They're saying, okay, this is the revenue.

Waldemar: 00:33:47

This is the eBit, this is that, this is this.

Waldemar: 00:33:49

And they're using a lot of words and terms that many people don't understand.

Waldemar: 00:33:54

Not only because, there's a generational gap, but also

Waldemar: 00:33:58

because there is a knowledge gap.

Waldemar: 00:33:59

I heard once a general manager or CEO speaking a lot about sales and

Waldemar: 00:34:03

everything to an audience, which was 80 percent technicians and guys who were

Waldemar: 00:34:08

taking care of assembly departments.

Waldemar: 00:34:11

And these guys, what they wanted to hear.

Waldemar: 00:34:13

So you need to adjust also the information is okay.

Waldemar: 00:34:15

When are the next machines coming?

Waldemar: 00:34:17

What should we do the next six months?

Waldemar: 00:34:19

So also adjusting the information.

Waldemar: 00:34:21

So you are in a difficult situation because you have to speak to a

Waldemar: 00:34:24

diversified audience and you have to deliver information that for some people

Waldemar: 00:34:29

is relevant and for others not but what you really want if you do that is

Waldemar: 00:34:34

that all the information you give is relevant to everybody and you want that

Waldemar: 00:34:38

everybody somehow understands that.

Waldemar: 00:34:40

So what I really suggest when I do it myself or when I work with my clients

Waldemar: 00:34:44

is to keep it simple and you can actually don't mistake if you keep

Waldemar: 00:34:48

your communication simple, but in the professional way start there and then

Waldemar: 00:34:52

see, and it's adjust and it has so many different aspects that need to be

Waldemar: 00:34:57

considered, but that worked fine for me.

Rob: 00:34:59

When I think along those lines, I always remember Steve jobs and how

Rob: 00:35:02

much effort he made on simplicity.

Rob: 00:35:04

I think that is really the key is that when you share information, there's

Rob: 00:35:08

there's a certain amount of digestion and the digestible your messages, the

Rob: 00:35:12

more people will pay attention to it.

Rob: 00:35:14

So you can either, have this wordy, complicated thing.

Rob: 00:35:17

And very few people will take the effort to digest it, or you

Rob: 00:35:20

can digest it, and so it's simple and everyone understands, right?

Rob: 00:35:25

I agree with what you say.

Rob: 00:35:26

I think people are people and there is like we're all the same.

Rob: 00:35:31

When you look at.

Rob: 00:35:32

I think a lot of, like older people will look at kids and they go, Oh, they're

Rob: 00:35:35

always on their phones and all this, but so are we it's because technology

Rob: 00:35:39

is a bit like, like food companies, they make the most money by providing

Rob: 00:35:42

the most amount of sugar and salt.

Rob: 00:35:44

So the more junk food they have, the more we will like it.

Rob: 00:35:47

Same thing with technology.

Rob: 00:35:49

They're doing the same to our attention.

Rob: 00:35:51

It's like the most amount of dopamine per minute is what's going to win.

Rob: 00:35:54

And we've become, we've become an attention deficit society

Rob: 00:35:58

because we are dopamine addicted.

Rob: 00:36:00

Having said that there are distinctions.

Rob: 00:36:02

I don't know if you've ever come across morgan housel.

Rob: 00:36:05

And he's got a psychology of money

Rob: 00:36:07

I really love his insight that yeah what people have lived through the

Rob: 00:36:10

experiences that people have lived through the 40s What was it 30s depression?

Rob: 00:36:15

Yeah the world wars the 60s like You know the materialistic 80s

Rob: 00:36:21

That is going to shape a generation, how a generation thinks about money.

Rob: 00:36:25

And in the same way what has happened culturally is going to shape how a

Rob: 00:36:29

generation, their orientation and the way that they look at the world.

Rob: 00:36:33

And I had a conversation, one of these conversations, and it actually

Rob: 00:36:37

went to about Gen Z and things.

Rob: 00:36:39

And what I.

Rob: 00:36:39

really understood there was that.

Rob: 00:36:41

So when you look at Gen Z now, which is probably, like the people that you

Rob: 00:36:45

were speaking to yesterday, a little bit younger than you is they've grown

Rob: 00:36:48

up where most of their life, from before teenage has been spent on social

Rob: 00:36:53

media, the people they follow and no longer TV shows and unrealistic stars,

Rob: 00:36:58

but they're YouTubers who they've grown up with their vlogs and they're

Rob: 00:37:02

people that they feel that they know.

Rob: 00:37:03

What I realized is they learn less from life by being taught than by

Rob: 00:37:07

watching and vicariously experiencing.

Rob: 00:37:10

And I think they struggle when they go into a organization that's you're going

Rob: 00:37:14

to learn this and you're going to do this.

Rob: 00:37:16

And they're like, no, like this YouTuber just goes in and does it.

Rob: 00:37:19

I'm just going to go in and do it.

Rob: 00:37:21

Exactly.

Rob: 00:37:21

And I think that is the problem.

Rob: 00:37:23

And this was Sandy said, you have to show me take me to the water, give

Rob: 00:37:27

me basically give me the experience.

Rob: 00:37:29

And they want the experience, but not being told about the experience.

Rob: 00:37:33

So I'm wondering your thoughts on that.

Waldemar: 00:37:35

Yeah, I really like that.

Waldemar: 00:37:36

That example that you made.

Waldemar: 00:37:38

And I actually thought recently about that, but you're saying growing with

Waldemar: 00:37:42

social media and only if you think about the amount of input and information

Waldemar: 00:37:47

that you get, and when you're younger you try to identify with your hero.

Waldemar: 00:37:51

For me, it was, maybe that's why I started to do a lot of combat sports

Waldemar: 00:37:55

and sports in general, because I was like a big fan of action movies, Arnold

Waldemar: 00:37:59

Schwarzenegger, Sylvester Stallone, Rocky movies, Jean Claude Van Damme.

Waldemar: 00:38:03

This was my world, and they were my heroes.

Waldemar: 00:38:05

And I somehow pictured, I want to be like them, fit and cool,

Waldemar: 00:38:10

but I have three people I admire.

Waldemar: 00:38:12

And I try to work something towards somehow to look like

Waldemar: 00:38:16

them, to do stuff like them.

Waldemar: 00:38:18

The younger generations.

Waldemar: 00:38:19

We think they have so many inputs, so much input from all different types of

Waldemar: 00:38:24

sources, and it gets way more realistic for them to reach certain goals.

Waldemar: 00:38:30

And they are more willing what I experienced to approach this

Waldemar: 00:38:34

in a try and fail approach.

Waldemar: 00:38:36

So they are more willing, in my opinion, to try new things to

Waldemar: 00:38:39

fail and to retry while already my generation, so millennials.

Waldemar: 00:38:44

I was raised very very traditional.

Waldemar: 00:38:46

Let me say.

Waldemar: 00:38:47

So you start you study you, you graduate and graduated mechanical engineering.

Waldemar: 00:38:52

So this is going to be my life, mechanical engineer.

Waldemar: 00:38:55

And then, okay.

Waldemar: 00:38:56

I shifted towards some different stuff, but the way that we are living

Waldemar: 00:39:01

today, that people change careers, change paths almost every two years.

Waldemar: 00:39:07

And they build something.

Waldemar: 00:39:08

On social media, you build something you're two years later, you do

Waldemar: 00:39:12

something completely different than you built in a completely new life.

Waldemar: 00:39:16

And three years after that you start again and you build again, something.

Waldemar: 00:39:19

So it gives people the belief to.

Waldemar: 00:39:22

That this is possible.

Waldemar: 00:39:23

So I can do that.

Waldemar: 00:39:25

When such a person coming in into a company and wants to

Waldemar: 00:39:28

do stuff, I want to do stuff.

Waldemar: 00:39:30

I want to experience that.

Waldemar: 00:39:31

I want to make a difference.

Waldemar: 00:39:34

We are from the other generation.

Waldemar: 00:39:36

We think no, you should do the thing slowly learn, because this is the

Waldemar: 00:39:40

path, because in our head, we are like we don't want something bad for them.

Waldemar: 00:39:44

We want to help them.

Waldemar: 00:39:45

Because in our head, we want to help them to create a path, professional

Waldemar: 00:39:49

career, long term career, so that in 10, 15 years, they're going to be

Waldemar: 00:39:55

successful in what they are doing now.

Waldemar: 00:39:57

But they are not looking 10, 15 years.

Waldemar: 00:40:00

They are looking today.

Waldemar: 00:40:01

They're looking maybe in five years.

Waldemar: 00:40:03

They are having maybe an idea of what they're going to do,

Waldemar: 00:40:05

but they're more on this level.

Waldemar: 00:40:07

I'm going to try this.

Waldemar: 00:40:09

And if I'm not liking this.

Waldemar: 00:40:10

I'm going to change and do something else, but to understand if they like or not,

Waldemar: 00:40:14

they need to have the opportunity to try.

Waldemar: 00:40:16

And if we don't give them the opportunity to try their

Waldemar: 00:40:19

immediate reaction will be okay.

Waldemar: 00:40:21

For me, not trying is I'm going to do a thing that I can try.

Waldemar: 00:40:26

So I will not stay here for not trying to do it myself.

Waldemar: 00:40:30

I will just go for the next thing.

Waldemar: 00:40:32

And the next thing that's where the, all the job hopping and everything comes.

Waldemar: 00:40:36

They are very demanding in terms of of opportunity in terms of taking action

Waldemar: 00:40:40

rather than being shown, as you said, to how do the things they don't like that.

Waldemar: 00:40:45

This is my

Rob: 00:40:46

experience.

Rob: 00:40:46

They're coming into an organization where, traditionally the view has

Rob: 00:40:50

been you've got to earn your way, like you do this for 15 years And

Rob: 00:40:53

then maybe you can get another job.

Rob: 00:40:55

This is something I hear is the frustration that people have is

Rob: 00:40:58

You know, I spent 15 20 years waiting To earn my way up.

Rob: 00:41:03

I got the role and then they want my role straight away.

Rob: 00:41:06

Yeah.

Rob: 00:41:06

So there's a there's that conflict there's that's the generational conflict between I

Rob: 00:41:11

earned it You want it without earning it?

Rob: 00:41:13

They're saying like I want the experience now and if you're not gonna give it to

Rob: 00:41:16

me I'm gonna go somewhere else so how do we reconcile those two perspectives

Rob: 00:41:21

and those two desires and worldviews?

Rob: 00:41:24

This

Waldemar: 00:41:26

is a very good question, Rob.

Waldemar: 00:41:27

My idea is really to help both parties somehow understanding each other.

Waldemar: 00:41:33

So here is what your expertise also comes in communication.

Waldemar: 00:41:36

How do I want to do that?

Waldemar: 00:41:38

I mentioned it before.

Waldemar: 00:41:39

I really want to show both sides rather telling one side, you have to comply

Waldemar: 00:41:45

with their needs or telling Gen Z that you have to omit, and you have to

Waldemar: 00:41:49

go for the way that they are saying, because they don't need, I think both

Waldemar: 00:41:54

parties, or when we look like the big generation gap, both parties are somehow

Waldemar: 00:41:58

able and willing to compromise, but not to compromise on certain things.

Waldemar: 00:42:03

So what we need to find really is the balance to bring these two

Waldemar: 00:42:07

together, to communicate And to sell more the opportunity than

Waldemar: 00:42:12

what they should change again.

Waldemar: 00:42:14

It's about the approach, not lecturing people what they should

Waldemar: 00:42:17

change, what they should do better because it's also a psychology thing.

Waldemar: 00:42:21

If you tell people to do better, they first have to admit that

Waldemar: 00:42:24

they suck and nobody likes that.

Waldemar: 00:42:26

So rather than saying that you go and you explain to people, look, guys, there is

Waldemar: 00:42:31

an opportunity to do things differently.

Waldemar: 00:42:33

And what is the most important thing?

Waldemar: 00:42:35

There is a win.

Waldemar: 00:42:35

There is, it's not a compromise.

Waldemar: 00:42:37

So I don't like compromise because compromise means I lose something.

Waldemar: 00:42:42

Generally, it means I lose something.

Waldemar: 00:42:44

I want to focus not on compromise.

Waldemar: 00:42:46

I want to focus on opportunity.

Waldemar: 00:42:47

Both sides get to win something.

Waldemar: 00:42:49

So it's up to us if you want to win that.

Waldemar: 00:42:52

I strongly believe in the fact that we should offer younger generations

Waldemar: 00:42:56

opportunity to try and to fail.

Waldemar: 00:42:59

Because they will grow with that.

Waldemar: 00:43:00

And on the other hand, I understand it's my generation is also closer to

Waldemar: 00:43:06

the mindset of the senior executives that certain things take time.

Waldemar: 00:43:11

And this is such an amazing opportunity.

Waldemar: 00:43:13

If you pair those people, the really senior executives who have

Waldemar: 00:43:17

the experience, who failed already.

Waldemar: 00:43:19

Because this is actually what I said, try to tell people what is the beauty

Waldemar: 00:43:24

of a mentor of somebody who has the experience you want to go try and fail.

Waldemar: 00:43:28

That's fine.

Waldemar: 00:43:29

This is how you should learn.

Waldemar: 00:43:30

And this will lead you to success.

Waldemar: 00:43:32

But how can you be faster?

Waldemar: 00:43:34

How can you grow faster and better?

Waldemar: 00:43:36

There is one shortcut.

Waldemar: 00:43:37

Maybe the only shortcut in the career that exists is you go with a mentor

Waldemar: 00:43:42

with somebody who helps you because this person already failed for you.

Waldemar: 00:43:45

Okay.

Waldemar: 00:43:46

So it will.

Waldemar: 00:43:47

Be helpful to you and it will be helpful to the mentor because this is the

Waldemar: 00:43:51

classic sponsorship, which kicks in.

Waldemar: 00:43:53

So when you're able to pair, senior executives with younger people, and

Waldemar: 00:43:58

they somehow create a great base of collaboration where this is,

Waldemar: 00:44:02

I think gens that will work like crazy and senior executives will

Waldemar: 00:44:06

be very happy with the results.

Waldemar: 00:44:08

And this is the win, I think.

Rob: 00:44:09

I think in relationships, people think it's about compromise, but

Rob: 00:44:12

it isn't necessarily compromise.

Rob: 00:44:14

It can be compromised, like whether you have an Indian or whether you have a

Rob: 00:44:17

Chinese that which is insignificant, but if you compromise, what you have is you

Rob: 00:44:22

have I want this, and then one goes, yeah, okay I'll have this, they'll have this,

Rob: 00:44:26

and neither of them want what they want.

Rob: 00:44:28

I think that's what we've got with the different generations.

Rob: 00:44:30

We've got one view here, one view here.

Rob: 00:44:32

And whenever we have that, what we need to do is find the seed of what's in

Rob: 00:44:37

here and the seed of what's in here, and we have to find the solution.

Rob: 00:44:41

which is the higher level of thinking.

Rob: 00:44:43

It's like it goes back to Einstein, that every problem is solved

Rob: 00:44:45

at a higher level of thinking.

Rob: 00:44:46

When I look from that perspective, I can see how Gen Z are going to

Rob: 00:44:50

change the organizational structure.

Rob: 00:44:53

Because in order to accommodate them I think people like yourself

Rob: 00:44:55

are going to spread the word that we have to give them experience.

Rob: 00:44:58

What you then run into is someone's 10 years into waiting

Rob: 00:45:02

for their chance to go there.

Rob: 00:45:04

And then someone's how come they just walk in and they get that?

Rob: 00:45:06

And other people are going to want that.

Rob: 00:45:08

So I see there being a big organizational restructuring of

Waldemar: 00:45:12

that.

Waldemar: 00:45:13

I think we will have this for the next decade.

Waldemar: 00:45:16

So this is a long term process.

Waldemar: 00:45:18

I think when we start moving towards millennials into the senior leadership

Waldemar: 00:45:24

and senior executives position, so millennials will make the entrance for

Waldemar: 00:45:28

Gen Z easier and make the transition.

Waldemar: 00:45:31

And accommodate their needs way better in the organization.

Waldemar: 00:45:34

I guess we will be back to the start because then another

Waldemar: 00:45:38

generation is following, I think they call it generation alpha.

Waldemar: 00:45:41

So who the God knows what they want from us and from the business.

Waldemar: 00:45:45

I guess this is never ending loop, but I really like how you rephrase that of

Waldemar: 00:45:49

having two point of views and a high level of thinking of seeing to creating a

Waldemar: 00:45:55

new solution and new opportunity, rather than trying to figure out which is the

Waldemar: 00:45:59

best or what are the pieces of the best.

Waldemar: 00:46:01

Just create one that both are committed

Rob: 00:46:03

to.

Rob: 00:46:04

I definitely think it's going to be an interesting time and I think you've

Rob: 00:46:07

chosen is a really interesting field.

Rob: 00:46:09

Also your personality seeing your background, I can see like the

Rob: 00:46:13

Russian philosophy because all of that and the martial arts is like my

Rob: 00:46:18

experience of Russians is they're very direct, they're strong.

Rob: 00:46:22

Like they've coped with freezing cold weather, they've coped with

Rob: 00:46:25

hardship of, when you go back to the old Soviet times where food was

Rob: 00:46:28

scarce, they've coped with adversity.

Rob: 00:46:30

My understanding of the Russian culture is, it's No whining,

Rob: 00:46:35

no bullshit, just do it.

Rob: 00:46:36

Very much yeah.

Rob: 00:46:37

I think your experience in.

Rob: 00:46:40

martial arts has given you steel.

Rob: 00:46:42

It's made you understand how to deal with life without

Rob: 00:46:45

whining and without complaining.

Rob: 00:46:47

So I was really interested to uncover that because I think then pairing

Rob: 00:46:51

that with the Gen Z where everyone says, Oh, it's entitled and they're

Rob: 00:46:55

soft and they're all of this.

Rob: 00:46:57

I think that makes you the perfect person to work with them because that's

Rob: 00:47:03

what everyone seems that they need.

Rob: 00:47:06

And when you tally that with the understanding of where they're

Rob: 00:47:10

coming from and why they want what they want I think you're really

Rob: 00:47:14

well set up to make a difference.

Rob: 00:47:16

It's one of the biggest, it's probably, I think communication, which you're also

Rob: 00:47:20

dealing with, communication relationships, obviously, I think, The emotional

Rob: 00:47:25

intelligence and the generational differences I think are really the key

Rob: 00:47:29

things, going forward that organizations are going to have to deal with.

Rob: 00:47:33

That's going to be really exciting times.

Rob: 00:47:35

To see how it all unfolds.

Waldemar: 00:47:37

Yeah, I agree.

Waldemar: 00:47:38

Rob, the time is very exciting and I'm somehow grateful of how

Waldemar: 00:47:42

technology is involving and very fast.

Waldemar: 00:47:45

I was long time.

Waldemar: 00:47:45

I was critically, I was at the critical thought about that.

Waldemar: 00:47:48

Is that so good, but I somehow see that all this technology advancement brings

Waldemar: 00:47:53

us back to the values and to human nature and to think about and rethink

Waldemar: 00:47:59

about our feelings and how we should behave and think about ethical standards.

Waldemar: 00:48:04

I see this as coming more and more in organizations and in people.

Waldemar: 00:48:08

It's somehow okay, we saw technologies advancing, everything becoming,

Waldemar: 00:48:13

everybody's becoming a robot somehow.

Waldemar: 00:48:15

And now we are back on, let's discover the human part of us.

Waldemar: 00:48:18

And this is something I really enjoy.

Waldemar: 00:48:20

Doing what I do now.

Rob: 00:48:21

I really like how you said that because I think we're in a spiral I

Rob: 00:48:24

think we went from you know before the Industrial Revolution we were all at

Rob: 00:48:28

home and working on the small holdings and just surviving and then we got

Rob: 00:48:32

to a point where we got security, but we lived an artificial life.

Rob: 00:48:37

And I think now digitally, we're going back to that way where we can

Rob: 00:48:41

be back in the family and we can interact outside and we can reach the

Rob: 00:48:45

whole world, but we do it digitally.

Rob: 00:48:48

And I think there is a lot of growth in becoming a digital citizen.

Rob: 00:48:53

I think we've already become a citizen, but now it's a digital citizen.

Rob: 00:48:56

Within that, it becomes critically important how we

Rob: 00:48:59

like our emotional intelligence.

Rob: 00:49:01

But yeah, so it's been fascinating.

Rob: 00:49:03

So thank you for taking the time to chat.

Waldemar: 00:49:05

Really enjoyed talking to you.

Rob: 00:49:07

It's given me some new ideas.

Rob: 00:49:08

I am really interested in, what happens with this new generation.

Waldemar: 00:49:11

It's cool.

Waldemar: 00:49:12

I really appreciate your podcast.

Waldemar: 00:49:14

I listened very careful to the episode with Matthew Ward.

Waldemar: 00:49:17

Really enjoyed that one.

Waldemar: 00:49:18

This guy is like leadership guru.

Waldemar: 00:49:21

Old style, but very open way.

Waldemar: 00:49:23

This is, we need more of that.

Waldemar: 00:49:24

He's a senior leader, a lot of experience following a bit in this

Waldemar: 00:49:28

exchanging, engaging a bit with him.

Waldemar: 00:49:30

So this was a great episode.

Waldemar: 00:49:32

Then you recently spoke with my good friend Saieed, also amazing guy.

Waldemar: 00:49:36

Yeah.

Waldemar: 00:49:36

Doing great job.

Waldemar: 00:49:37

Really enjoying also listening to your conversations.

Waldemar: 00:49:40

Thank you.

Rob: 00:49:41

I've loved my conversation.

Rob: 00:49:42

So there's so many interesting people and they're all doing slightly different

Rob: 00:49:45

and have slightly different perspectives.

Rob: 00:49:47

Thanks Rob.

Rob: 00:49:48

No, I appreciate it.

Rob: 00:49:49

Have a great week and I'll catch up with you.

Waldemar: 00:49:51

Likewise.

Waldemar: 00:49:52

Thanks Rob.

Waldemar: 00:49:52

Take care.

Waldemar: 00:49:53

Bye.

Waldemar: 00:49:53

Bye.