Episode 127

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Published on:

4th Nov 2024

The Secret to Finding Purpose in Your Work (Through VALUES)

Do you feel your work brings you purpose?

In all my work with individuals, I've seen three core needs. The first two dominate our early career.

To belong and feel part of a tribe.

To gain status and value within that tribe.

We seek out the field we want to be in. And how we can fulfil our ambitions in that field. But often many then feel a sense that something is missing.

A sense of purpose.

This relates to the third need. The desire to want to be part of something meaningful. And this is what Simon Gallagher coaches Clients on.

In today's podcast we talked about his journey from PHD Chemist to Beer Brewer to Purpose Coach.

Links:

Simon Gallagher's Linkedin

00:00 Finding Your Purpose

00:45 Understanding Core Values

01:20 A Journey Through Education

02:21 Discovering Coaching

03:50 The Power of LinkedIn

05:16 The Irish Influence

13:32 Transition to Coaching

19:25 The Coaching Landscape

24:45 Values and Purpose: The Foundation of Coaching

26:13 The Role of Humor in Personal Values

27:27 Navigating LinkedIn with Authenticity and Humor

30:59 The Importance of Visual Content on LinkedIn

32:37 Mechanistic vs. Aspirational Values

37:53 Coaching for Clarity and Performance

44:00 The Challenge of Freedom and Self-Validation

46:36 The Burden of Comparison and the Education System

47:20 Final Thoughts and Future Conversations

Transcript
Simon:

Lots of people are looking for a purpose.

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They can get very stressed out finding that perfect sentence

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that covers everything.

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The first thing that people need to know is you don't have one purpose.

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You have many different purposes throughout your life, like you have

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a daughter who's in university, your purpose looking after her when she

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was a toddler is different to your purpose right now, I see values as the

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ingredients to your purpose, your purpose is basically your values in action, it's

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a lot easier to swap in and out values on particular situations and experiences.

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in your life than it is to shoehorn a purpose statement into a situation.

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That is the engine that you feed into your beliefs, your confidence, your strengths.

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I like to see values as the pieces of information that

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lie behind your strengths.

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Just think of values as the root of those glaciers or tree

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diagrams that we see all the time.

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I like to see values as the roots and everything in terms of.

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Performance, motivation, commitment, your well being, resilience stems from that.

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When you're clear on your core values, it brings a lot more clarity

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and you're able to bring your authentic self into situations.

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You know why some situations don't fit, probably because they don't

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adhere or speak to your values.

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I'm a chemist by trade through my education.

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I would have done chemistry in Dublin City University as a degree.

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What was happening in Ireland at the time was, there was a huge

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pharmaceutical industry, and When I was younger, I think about doing chemistry.

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People are like, Oh there's money in that or okay, let's just stick to that.

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Then you find yourself four years into a degree and you're just

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like shrugging your shoulders.

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You're not even asking yourself what you like.

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I went traveling, came back, the crash happened.

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Didn't want to find the job was lucky enough to find myself

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in a PhD research placement.

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So I end up, nevermind doing chemistry for four years as a degree, I end

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up doing a PhD in it, which by the end of it, I realized I don't

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want to work in a pharmaceutical industry for my own reasons.

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Then I was looking for a job like coming into kind of coming into my late twenties.

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Looking for my first kind of proper job and found myself with a beverage

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company, which I still work.

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That's what kind of like my nine to five these days.

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And through that I found myself in an L and D role and pushed myself for the

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first time towards a coaching certificate because all my qualifications up

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until then would have been technical.

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Every single one of them.

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And did I want to do them?

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Probably not.

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It was more of a case of what's the next piece of paper that

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can make everything make sense.

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One thing that I found from the coaching qualification was asking myself those

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questions of what's important to me.

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And it was unbelievable how much of a light bulb switch it was when I found out

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learning was one of my values, because I would go to people and say, Oh, I'm

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going to do this course and this course.

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And like, are you not finished yet?

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The coaching question made me say, this is absolutely who I am.

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Learning and throwing myself into courses, progressing and growing

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is absolutely who I am, but there's also the dark side of it.

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When I say the dark side of it, you can learn stuff that you're not interested in.

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You're just learning for learning's sake.

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So since then I've become a lot more targeted in learning and I've

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been coaching for past four years.

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Off the back of that, it's completely opened up where I want to go in

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my career and what I've leaned into and unlocked pieces that I

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thought would never be unlocked.

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The best thing about it is it's made me grab them with both hands.

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My coaching has created more impact than I have ever done in

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my career, which is fantastic.

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And I've really enjoyed it.

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So that's brought me up to now and the last kind of six or eight months

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I've been posting on LinkedIn.

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Cause the amount of times, if you read a lot and you read self

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development stuff, you're like, wow, I wonder how many people know this.

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I just like the idea of people just coming across something, cause I'm not

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on social media outside of LinkedIn at all, but people coming across something,

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Oh, wow I like that it was presented in a nice, clear way

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and I don't have to decipher it.

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It's just Oh, okay.

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That's nice.

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And it just makes them change their thinking.

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So I liked that.

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I like the aspect of the creativity and writing a little bit for what it is.

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And being able to coach.

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My coaching is 10 times stronger because in terms of what I can give people and

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finding kind of that niche of who you want to coach and how you can help them really.

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So that's brought me up to where we are now.

Rob:

Did you complete your PhD?

Simon:

I did.

Simon:

Yeah.

Simon:

Rob.

Simon:

I complete everything I start.

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Regardless.

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It was an opportunity that I was given.

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I did brewing exams, which were arguably harder than my PhD in terms

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of heat transfers, fluid dynamics.

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I finished that and realized I didn't want to do brewing.

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So it's just insane.

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But yeah, I did finish it.

Simon:

Yeah.

Rob:

Which company did you start working with?

Simon:

So I work with I started working with and still work

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with to this day Diageo.

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So the company, they make Guinness, Smirnoff.

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That's what I was

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wondering.

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My parents are Irish.

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Oh, very good.

Rob:

Where are you from?

Rob:

My mum was from Tralee Kerry.

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And my dad was right on the other end a tiny village in Monaghan.

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I've only been to Ireland once we went when I was 14.

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But all my mom's cousins pretty much seem to work for Guinness.

Rob:

It's a massive employer, isn't it?

Simon:

It used to be.

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Before Ireland became Ireland that it is today we used to be just known

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as a biscuits and beer economy.

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We never imported anything.

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It was like a economic embargo that our previous leaders did.

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All we had was Jacob's factory and Guinness factory.

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And now it's completely changed.

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And Guinness was bought by what became Diageo in 95 or 96.

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And it's still incredibly culturally important to Dublin and to Ireland.

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It's more popular than ever.

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That's a great company to work for.

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But in terms of mass employers, that has definitely changed

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in Dublin and in Ireland.

Rob:

Dublin was for a time being really trendy place to go.

Rob:

Not anymore.

Simon:

No, I think a lot of people, a lot of Dubliners are

Simon:

screaming out for Some sort of.

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Cultural protection to when it comes to Dublin there's a danger of Dublin becoming

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London prices without being London.

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A lot of hotels, a lot of places, gigs, venues being

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closed down, hotels being built.

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And people would argue that Dublin's now being catered

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towards more foreign students.

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Because they pay an awful lot of money and tourists, and there's a lot of office

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blocks are lying empty in a lot of places.

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A lot of Dubliners, as proud as they would be, would say, go to the West.

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If you're going to go to Ireland, go to the West of

Rob:

Ireland.

Rob:

It's such a beautiful country, isn't it?

Simon:

Yeah, it's fantastic.

Simon:

It's great.

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One of the best ways to do the West Coast is to visit on two wheels,

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grab a bike and just cycle along the wild Atlantic way as it's called.

Simon:

It's amazing.

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I did it, I think it was in 2017, 2018.

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I cycled bottom to top with a few of my mates and it was incredible.

Rob:

Yeah I keep thinking about going over.

Rob:

I'll have to get around to it.

Rob:

Yeah.

Simon:

I highly recommend it.

Simon:

Just to warn you, we did have our coldest summer in nine years just gone.

Rob:

That's actually what puts me off is like to go to a different city.

Rob:

You could go to a warmer city but then it's like Ireland and I'd

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like to go Scotland, like into the Highlands, which I've never been.

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They're two of the places, but the things that puts me off

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is it's going to be colder.

Simon:

There's Europeans that go to Ireland to get away from the heat and

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they're like, oh, they're so lucky, they like the break from the heat.

Simon:

I wouldn't live here, of course, because it's cold like this all the time.

Rob:

So in your PhD what was your thing?

Rob:

It

Simon:

was basically smart sensors.

Simon:

It's been a while since I talked about this.

Simon:

So it's basically polymer science and solvents working with smart

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polymers that react to external stimuli and are used from kind of

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microfluidics and smart sensors.

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Was I a natural chemist?

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Absolutely no.

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What it did show me and it instills in me to this day is that if I see

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that something's hard or difficult, sure, look, if I can do a PhD in

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chemistry, I can work this out.

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Surely There's something around this I can work my head around

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because you know how a lot of people think of like Sunk cost bias.

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They've put so much into something and are terrified to make a deviation

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or career change from that because they think that would make everything

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previous absolutely redundant.

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I look at it as if I can do that.

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What if I put my energy and effort into something that I truly find

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interesting and really want to learn more about and grab it with both hands.

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It's all about energy.

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What we ideally want to do is work on things that, oh, I could do that all day.

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But finding that a hundred percent of the way is tricky, but you can definitely work

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on increasing those percentages, you just have to get to a point where you get good

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at that energy giving task so much so that people exchange a monetary value for it.

Rob:

I love learning.

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But I wouldn't work at school because I was rebelling.

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I just didn't agree with the premise of me being there and me being forced

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to learn what they wanted me to learn.

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But even now I struggle with having the energy to pay attention to science.

Rob:

So for me, if it's not learning about people it just has no interest for me.

Simon:

The thing that kind of pulled me towards it was I was seduced

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by the intelligence of it and the intelligence of quotes, but the kind

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of pedestal we push really smart people up on when we're younger, as in

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who they're able to figure this out.

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Now, I was drawn into it by that not knowing that it's

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not my natural space at all.

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I really do think that I got myself through my degree and my doctorate,

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through my relationships with people, I got on with people, so could ask them for

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help at certain points, and was able to collaborate and be dragged through it.

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On that aspect, one thing that I've always just gotten from

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is that I'm very sociable.

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I could talk to people.

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I'm Irish, so I could talk to people all day and it really took me a long time

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to see that I could maybe divert that into doing something that would, I would

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enjoy, but that would ultimately add value for people, which was mind blowing.

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And I'm still trying to carve that out for myself, but but yeah it's that school

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aspect of the structures and systems in place as you would know yourself, do

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not cater to our strengths whatsoever.

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It can plant a seed that is actually the wrong seed that needs to be planted.

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And it takes a while for that kind of plant to grow before you actually need to

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rip out the root and plant another seed,

Rob:

there is something about the culture of the Irish and

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the way that they just talk.

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I can remember going over.

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When we went over and it's just the kind of place where people just

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talk and I don't know if it's still the same, but you could hitchhike

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anywhere, people would pick you up.

Rob:

You could go in any pub and you'd feel at home.

Rob:

As I said, there was a strong Irish community growing up here in England.

Rob:

And there's just a different nature a level of hospitality and

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friendliness that comes with the Irish.

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And I've seen in public speaking, the Irish tend to predominate,

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they're great talkers.

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I'm wondering, something that's often, I've often considered, culturally,

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what makes the Irish better speakers and so natural at communicating?

Simon:

One thing that does come to mind definitely is our tradition

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of storytelling, and there is a kind of century old tradition of

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storytellers within Ireland and Irish culture being lauded over the years.

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That's evolved into what we see today.

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What would be the most famous platform for that is the Irish pub.

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And nobody likes a quiet pub.

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Everybody loves chat.

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And people that are seen as great storytellers, they are

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lauded and put on a platform or pedestal and that's centuries old.

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In terms of our cultural footprint for the size of Ireland is

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phenomenal in terms of our writers and our filmmakers and our music.

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There's definitely something that comes from that making noise which we embrace.

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There's kind of elements that you see in British cultures as well,

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not taking yourself seriously and putting a smile on people's faces.

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You get that from storytelling and.

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You get that from engaging, talking with the person either side of you,

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like all my friends all my family would be talkers, even the ones

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that wouldn't be seen as talkers.

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They engage with people, they're able to be social, and it's, there's

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that something definitely that's written in the DNA of Ireland and

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Irish people when it comes to that.

Rob:

Okay, so you studied all this highly technical, highly intellectual stuff.

Rob:

How did you then make a leap into the coaching?

Simon:

I had just finished a brewing diploma, which was the most technical,

Simon:

most difficult exams that I had ever done.

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I failed the first two and then still put myself through it again

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to redo the exams and I finished it.

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It's great, that's done, but I don't want to be a brewer.

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And I was like, what's next, God, what's next.

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A friend did coaching and I was just like, I'd love to do

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a non technical qualification.

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I talked to her about it and she, as the newly formed coach, she asked me

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questions, pushed and pulled me on it.

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At the end of it said, you should do this because it completely Resonates

Simon:

with who you are as a person.

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And I said, yeah.

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And I was like, Grand, I like helping people.

Simon:

Here we go.

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First day of the course, I have no idea what I'm doing.

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This is an actual skill.

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It's 10 times more than just wanting to help people.

Simon:

First of all, If you have the solution park that, because that's

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the worst thing that you could do when it comes to coaching.

Simon:

I had such a respect for how it was an actual skill that you needed to

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practice, work on, stay on top of it, you can be a terrible coach and

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you can be a great coach and you need to step on your kind of continuous

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improvement all the time to stay sharp.

Simon:

I did that and I was like, Oh, I love this.

Simon:

And then COVID happened and I was like, how am I going to coach anybody?

Simon:

This is a skill, either I use it or I lose it.

Simon:

So I just messaged board everybody at work.

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Thankfully I worked in a big company.

Simon:

Who is that who wants free coaching?

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And that's basically led to me four years in coaching people every year is

Simon:

accumulating my errors, just getting better and better your second hundred

Simon:

hours of coaching is 10 times better than your first one hundred hours.

Simon:

And you're just seeing the impact and you're getting better and sharper.

Simon:

Yeah, that's where I am.

Rob:

I have enormous respect for people like you who working in the

Rob:

company with all the pressures of that and still doing this on the side.

Simon:

It was a conscious choice that I made or like just around at the turn

Simon:

of the year based on the coaching that I've been doing, the findings that I

Simon:

like found out from that from coaching and the stuff that I've been reading.

Simon:

What if I just presented it to people who might find it interesting?

Simon:

It's not like rewriting the rule book or anything.

Simon:

I'm not splitting atoms in front of anybody, but it's something that I've

Simon:

definitely gotten a lot of enjoyment out.

Simon:

One thing that I was not expecting that I absolutely love

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is the community aspect of it.

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And as a person who works in a company, as part of a global

Simon:

team, that's pretty small and.

Simon:

I could work five days a week from home.

Simon:

Being part of the community online is really nice.

Rob:

Yeah that's a distinction.

Rob:

LinkedIn is a little bit different.

Rob:

I used to blog back in the early days of blogging.

Rob:

I was less disciplined as a writer, just wrote what was ever on my mind.

Rob:

Whereas LinkedIn there's a community already formed, but it's not

Rob:

contained by that community as well.

Rob:

So you can go out and get more connections and some people will naturally find

Rob:

it, but whereas in a blog, it was like, cause people were looking for keywords.

Rob:

So you would have all this traffic from Google, whereas LinkedIn

Rob:

it's through your network.

Rob:

There is the community, which is richer, but it's also, it's like within a pond

Rob:

where it's limited by your network.

Simon:

Yeah, and that's an aspect of going out there and connecting

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with people, meaningful connections.

Simon:

And that's why sometimes, and that's why recently I've looked to reach out

Simon:

to people behind the connections that I've made, just get to talk to people,

Simon:

put a voice and a face behind that, to know the personality, because it lends

Simon:

itself to being a much richer face.

Simon:

And it just shows you the evolving, especially post pandemic of communities

Simon:

and how you can really lean into that for your benefit and everybody else's.

Simon:

One thing that I'm very much finding because I look into coach externally

Simon:

for compensation in the future.

Simon:

I'd love to do that.

Simon:

Cause all my coaching's internal.

Simon:

So it's paid coaching, but it's within the company.

Simon:

To not be seduced by a shed load of likes or comments.

Simon:

What you want is comments and likes that are interested in your product.

Simon:

It's just who do you cater to?

Simon:

You can definitely, based on what we see on LinkedIn, you can come up with

Simon:

a post that is guaranteed to get a good amount of engagement, but if you

Simon:

specialize, you're going to get less engagement, but those are more likable

Simon:

or genuine leads, you could say, what would you rather have a thousand Likes

Simon:

or 20 likes and trade offs 20 are going to actually make you business.

Rob:

I think often the likes become the product in themselves.

Rob:

The thing about LinkedIn, which took me a little while to learn is

Rob:

there's always a game to something.

Rob:

And the game of LinkedIn is you need likes and engagement to get the views.

Rob:

Because that gets more reach and impressions.

Rob:

So the game on LinkedIn is getting engagement so that other people who will

Rob:

never like, never comment on your stuff Will see it and it's those people that

Rob:

are the buyers the people who buy Almost always have never commented never liked

Rob:

they just look so the game is you have two audiences.

Rob:

You have people that you engage with and I suppose that was the

Rob:

strategy behind this, I came from individuals, relationship coaching.

Rob:

It was more Facebook, Instagram type thing.

Rob:

And I didn't know anyone and didn't really know how organizations

Rob:

in the corporate world worked.

Rob:

So I wanted to find a network and grow a network of people who I would learn

Rob:

from, and I would learn that side of it.

Rob:

And that's really the engagement, but they're never people

Rob:

that I'm going to sell to.

Rob:

And I think sometimes the confusion, particularly for a lot of coaches is, I

Rob:

think it's very difficult being a coach and we've talked about this with other

Rob:

people is because there is a whole lot of connotations with being a coach because

Rob:

anyone is a coach and the coach, everyone needs coach and all that kind of thing.

Rob:

And so I think you need to have a niche be clear about, What you

Rob:

bring specifically and sometimes coaches will want to coach anyone.

Rob:

So I know when I'm engaging with people.

Rob:

That they're not my market, but I'm engaging for the ideas.

Rob:

Like these are people who I will learn from and maybe I might have

Rob:

something to share with them.

Rob:

But I'm not trying to sell to them.

Rob:

Whereas sometimes new coaches, I think sometimes.

Rob:

struggle with that.

Rob:

And they think the engagement is where they are going to sell.

Simon:

There's definitely a part that I have learned is finding your niche.

Simon:

And a lot of coaches fall down because initially when you're learning to be a

Simon:

coach, you are taught you can coach people on anything as long as they're coachable.

Simon:

As long as you're sticking to the fundamentals of coaching and then you come

Simon:

out of your course and you're like, okay, I can coach anybody on within ethical

Simon:

boundaries and if they're coachable, but on, on anything and then they're Okay.

Simon:

I'm a coach.

Simon:

And then just that, I'll just coach anybody.

Simon:

And so you're not speaking to anybody and that's where finding

Simon:

your niche is really important.

Simon:

And it's so funny when you see people coming up with niches and you can

Simon:

totally see where they're coming from, but it's like the, it's like I do this

Simon:

for leaders and it's always leaders.

Simon:

And why?

Simon:

Because leaders make money.

Simon:

Come on, let's call the spade a spade.

Simon:

You're not going to say I work out careers for people insert.

Simon:

Like low paying job.

Simon:

That's not going to happen.

Simon:

When I see the leaders and I completely see why people want

Simon:

to coach leaders because leaders problems can be very interesting.

Simon:

And they have a bias to action as well.

Simon:

And if they're in a leadership position, they very much have a growth mindset,

Simon:

great people to coach, but there's also the monetary aspect of it where it's

Simon:

just Oh, they're going to pay more.

Rob:

Definitely.

Rob:

At my core, really my whole basis was coaching, I was in,

Rob:

in the early days of coaching.

Rob:

So I was a happiness coach and that, and then I realized what

Rob:

I didn't like about coaching.

Rob:

What I don't like about coaching is it's a sales model, which they tell everyone

Rob:

is different from coaching to therapy.

Rob:

Everybody needs a coach and you need to be coaching.

Rob:

And I think they give you a great set of skills.

Rob:

Thomas leonard, he's the founder of coach and they call him he's the

Rob:

one who set up the IFC and I learned from him when he left there because

Rob:

he didn't like what it became.

Rob:

He was doing his new thing and I watched him and I go oh, yeah, I get it.

Rob:

You're a genius, but it's not what I do.

Rob:

I think you can coach, you can be a mentor, you can speak, you can train,

Rob:

you can facilitate all of these modes.

Rob:

But at the core of it is you have to take who you are.

Rob:

And I think too many people call themselves a coach.

Rob:

And a coach is selling coach.

Rob:

So it works for the IFC to sell coaching because it makes coaching

Rob:

into a profession and that's what's led to their growth.

Rob:

I think that you take the skills of what coaching is, you marry it with

Rob:

your experience of what you have, your personality and your style and your

Rob:

work is to make that into what it is.

Rob:

So at my core I'm a coach.

Rob:

I've also with mediation and facilitator and I've done training.

Rob:

I have my own kind of style in that I've niched into relationships.

Rob:

I went from personal relationships to basically helping new leaders.

Rob:

I think if you sell coaching, all you're doing is you are growing the ICF.

Simon:

I completely agree with you.

Simon:

I remember I came across the phrase, it's just like everybody

Simon:

selling the same thing.

Simon:

The only difference is you, and you really have to lean into that you

Simon:

and really find your authentic self.

Simon:

People are terrified of presenting their authentic selves.

Simon:

It's a very vulnerable thing to do.

Simon:

It's like where people hate interviews.

Simon:

One thing that I coach people on is, They try and tiptoe and sidestep around

Simon:

the gaps that are in the interview and they find themselves stretching

Simon:

and worrying about the things that are required in a job that they don't have.

Simon:

If you front up, Present your authentic self and say, this is actually a gap of

Simon:

me, but learning is part of my values.

Simon:

I've never been a hundred percent for a job in terms of description or anything,

Simon:

but if you present your authentic self and say, I'm ready to learn.

Simon:

I'd love to do this job.

Simon:

You find yourself a lot less stressed and a lot more keen

Simon:

and energized for the role.

Simon:

It's the same coaching.

Simon:

If you find yourself selling coaching and just being broad and not go leaning to

Simon:

a niche that actually speaks to you,..

Simon:

You'll see the market need and that they leave it at that, but that's where

Simon:

you're going to get your energy for.

Simon:

If you're coaching on a niche that isn't aligned with who you are, that's burnout.

Simon:

Like absolute road to burnout.

Simon:

So it's very important, I think Marcus Buckingham said, lean into

Simon:

your weird and it's a nice thing.

Simon:

Yeah, everybody's selling the same thing.

Simon:

The only difference is you

Rob:

What I would love to know is what's your weird?

Rob:

What's the flavor of you that you bring to coaching?

Simon:

The flavor that I bring to coaching I base it around values and

Simon:

how values can feed into purpose.

Simon:

Lots of people are looking for a purpose.

Simon:

They can get very stressed out finding that perfect sentence

Simon:

that covers everything.

Simon:

The first thing that people need to know is you don't have one purpose.

Simon:

You have many different purposes throughout your life.

Simon:

Like you have a daughter who's in university.

Simon:

Your purpose looking after her when she was a toddler is different

Simon:

to your purpose right now.

Simon:

I see values as the ingredients to your purpose.

Simon:

Your purpose is basically your values in action.

Simon:

It's a lot easier to swap in and out values on particular situations

Simon:

and experiences in your life than it is to shoehorn a purpose

Simon:

statement into a situation.

Simon:

That is the engine that you feed into your beliefs, your confidence, your strengths.

Simon:

I like to see values as the pieces of information that

Simon:

lie behind your strengths.

Simon:

Just think of values as the root, those glaciers or tree

Simon:

diagrams that we see all the time.

Simon:

I like to see values as the roots and everything in terms of performance,

Simon:

motivation, commitment, your wellbeing, resilience stems from that.

Simon:

When you're clear on your core values.

Simon:

It brings a lot more clarity and you're able to bring your

Simon:

authentic self into situations.

Simon:

You know why some situations don't fit, probably because they don't

Simon:

adhere or speak to your values.

Simon:

There's that piece in terms of the values when it comes to my weird or my

Simon:

approach, you would say, but One of my values and it was an absolute, I wouldn't

Simon:

say game changer for me, but it was so nice to come across it and find it.

Simon:

The value, when I first did values exercise of trying to find what they

Simon:

were, I just wrote down what sounded good.

Simon:

I think I wrote down empathy or something like that because people

Simon:

were looking for empathy leaders, which look is important to me.

Simon:

Don't get me wrong.

Simon:

But it's not number one and I just wrote down what look good and then I

Simon:

found myself more revisiting answering myself, answering the questions a

Simon:

lot more on one value that I found that actually is number one is humor.

Simon:

It's ever present in everything in my life.

Simon:

It like is there through out all the joy in my life.

Simon:

The tragic parts of my life.

Simon:

It's just always there.

Simon:

If there's not a joke being made at some point, something's wrong.

Simon:

It's not about disrespecting the situation.

Simon:

It's about owning it.

Simon:

And of course, there's a time and place for certain jokes for having a laugh.

Simon:

But I always rail against being solemn.

Simon:

I'm not a fan of it.

Simon:

Always take your work seriously.

Simon:

Nobody wants you to take yourself seriously.

Simon:

Nobody's asking about it.

Simon:

And I think there's a massive gap within LinkedIn and I see it.

Simon:

Some people are plugging it at the moment.

Simon:

They're really great posts, but they're putting in a bit of sense of humor because

Simon:

there can be sometimes and LinkedIn posts where you're just like, Oh my God, how

Simon:

did you write that with a straight face?

Simon:

I actually have Friends who would be slightly cynical to the

Simon:

LinkedIn thing, but look, they just know it's not their bag.

Simon:

And when I did my first few posts, I'll tell you a great story.

Simon:

I knew I would get some pushback from the lads because like we all make fun of each

Simon:

other in like our most vulnerable states.

Simon:

And that's what we want.

Simon:

That's where we get a lot of energy from.

Simon:

We all know we want each other to do well.

Simon:

I had started posting and I wasn't really finding my voice or anything like that.

Simon:

It was my early posts.

Simon:

You know how it is, you're just trying stuff out.

Simon:

And I hadn't heard anything from the lads and I knew one

Simon:

of them would be on LinkedIn.

Simon:

He has his own business.

Simon:

And I was like, he's seeing the stuff and I haven't gotten any side messages.

Simon:

What's going on?

Simon:

So I went down, it was a lads weekend, somebody's 40th.

Simon:

We rented out a house just like nice dinner go for hikes and stuff like that.

Simon:

It was a lovely house in Clare.

Simon:

And I rocked up in the evening and I was like yeah, Simon your rooms up at the top.

Simon:

And as I'm walking through this lovely house looking, giving myself

Simon:

a tour, they had printed out each of my LinkedIn posts and sellotaped

Simon:

them everywhere in the house.

Simon:

And I was just like, Oh, okay, there, there's the pushback.

Simon:

There it is.

Simon:

I actually said to them, I actually would have been really surprised

Simon:

had you not done anything.

Simon:

And this is the way you found your way.

Simon:

They would absolutely be supportive, but they had to chop me down a peg or two.

Simon:

But look, I still do it.

Simon:

But but it was very funny looking at.

Simon:

And that's where it goes back to my weird or my values is humor.

Simon:

It would have been very strange if they wouldn't have said

Simon:

anything or made a joke about him.

Simon:

That would have been something would have been missing there.

Simon:

That's where, when it comes to your weird or my authentic self, if I do

Simon:

a chemistry check with somebody and we're just, and you know how it is,

Simon:

you're just not on the same level.

Simon:

I have very easy way of going, let's make a joke.

Simon:

Because it can be really disarming.

Simon:

If that self deprecating thing that you can have for yourself,

Simon:

it lets people open up for you.

Simon:

It's, and there can be an aspect, I know when it comes to coaching, don't

Simon:

make it about yourself, but there is a piece there of how can you ask people

Simon:

to be vulnerable with you if you're not willing to be vulnerable with them?

Simon:

And there's a piece there.

Simon:

Definitely.

Simon:

That's worth exploring.

Rob:

I think what makes it so difficult on LinkedIn is the limitations you only

Rob:

have so long and you like if you're trying to get an idea across I tend to

Rob:

be someone who's quite wordy and I write long winded and I've had to trim it down

Rob:

so much and it's really hard there's so much of that you have to leave out.

Rob:

Of a post so it can be really hard and I think that can be Where it comes across,

Rob:

without humor and without much personality

Simon:

Yeah, there's definitely a skill to it.

Simon:

And there's you know yourself.

Simon:

There's some fantastic copywriters on linkedin and they're just they're

Simon:

their use of words in such as A small amount of space used it is fantastic

Simon:

and this is the thing when you're posting on a platform where people

Simon:

come across your post as part of thousands of other words that are there.

Simon:

As opposed to back in the day, as with a blog, people just go to

Simon:

read your blog they're clicking and they're just for that.

Simon:

Whereas you're sharing space with other people.

Simon:

What made me do the visual aspect, and I've never done just text aspect,

Simon:

because I've always been a visual person.

Simon:

As much as the text accompanies it, I've always been, if you just put it in, It's

Simon:

the kind of thing behind advertising, like just simple, pretty colors, soft shapes.

Simon:

It's as simple as that as opposed to people just reading that body of text.

Simon:

I like doing it, I like pulling it together.

Simon:

There's a kind of slight bit of humor behind it when you use the canva

Simon:

elements and the cartoon aspect.

Simon:

It's a lightheartedness to it, as opposed to, here was my black and

Simon:

white carousel that looks like it was put together by McKinsey.

Simon:

That just looks like work,

Rob:

To me writing has always been much easier.

Rob:

I've been kind of part time on LinkedIn for months.

Rob:

And I haven't been writing as much, but the one part I haven't

Rob:

really done is the visual.

Simon:

You have your videos and that's to be honest like that's something that

Simon:

very few people are doing that I see.

Simon:

I think that's still a visual and that's far more powerful than reading things off

Simon:

page, which can be fantastic, but seeing people talk and express seeing their

Simon:

shape and and with your clips, I'm like, when you're talking to somebody, I am

Simon:

definitely like, Oh, who's that person?

Simon:

What's their background?

Simon:

What's their story?

Simon:

So you pulled me in straight away.

Simon:

And it is, it, but it is about keeping it short that's a massive thing and it's

Simon:

hard to do that because as you said, it's there's some depth behind this, but I

Simon:

can only capture or share so much, yeah.

Rob:

Like in our conversation, we've covered so many things and there's

Rob:

going to be one little bit sometimes I'm like, but this or this, but one

Rob:

more thing before before we wrap up is.

Rob:

What's interesting about values is people everyone who goes to coaching

Rob:

or self development talks about values, but often people don't separate

Rob:

aspirational from mechanistic values.

Simon:

It's a very good point.

Rob:

Like I have mechanistic values that are what I use.

Rob:

So for me it's about getting to the truth, it's about acceptance,

Rob:

and it's about evolving from that.

Rob:

My mechanistic but my aspirational are not relationships or anything, it's freedom.

Rob:

The reason I do relationships is nothing about relationships, it's just because

Rob:

that's where people didn't feel free because they were trapped by their

Rob:

model of relationships by not being able to have the relationship that

Rob:

they wanted and so being stuck in one.

Rob:

The way that I judge life, I think everyone has to have a measure of

Rob:

how you're doing is it's about honor.

Rob:

Can I look in the mirror and feel good about myself?

Rob:

It doesn't matter what other people think you can get away

Rob:

with things by lying, by cheating.

Rob:

People make money from that, but every day I think they have to look at

Rob:

themselves and that's going to create anxiety and lose that peace of mind.

Rob:

What about from your values?

Simon:

It's very interesting that you say that the mechanistic

Simon:

part and also about if we don't have values, it's like a vacuum.

Simon:

It's filled by other stuff and they're, they technically tend to

Simon:

be external things like pay grades company care, corporate ladder what's,

Simon:

what social media thinks is success.

Simon:

And that's why you always hear, oh, they had strong values because nothing

Simon:

was able to seep in or dictate them.

Simon:

And that leads to burnout if you're motivated by external things.

Simon:

My values would be first off is humor.

Simon:

I'll explain that to you.

Simon:

Just always there.

Simon:

The second will be learning.

Simon:

I was one of those people that always was looking for that next piece of paper.

Simon:

I'm a voracious learner, but there can be a dark side to values as well.

Simon:

That's one thing that's noted that should be worth noting is because they can show

Simon:

up when they shouldn't, but you can't get away from them because they're yours.

Simon:

So example, humor, fantastic for situations and for putting people at

Simon:

ease, but there's a time and place for it.

Simon:

You need to dial it down in some in some instances.

Simon:

Learning.

Simon:

You can be an absolute voracious learner, but you can have an absolute fire hose

Simon:

into your mouth and nothing sticks.

Simon:

You need to be targeted and learning what aligns with what you as opposed to what

Simon:

other people is necessary for learning.

Simon:

That's really important.

Simon:

A third value of mine is optimism.

Simon:

It's ingrained in who I am.

Simon:

I'd say I get it from my mother.

Simon:

I just always see a way forward or, all right, now what are

Simon:

you going to do about it?

Simon:

To a point where it wrecks people in my life, their head, because they're just

Simon:

like, no, can we just dwell in the badness of this for a moment, which they're right.

Simon:

There's a difference between learned optimism and irrational positivity,

Simon:

pasting a happy face on a bad situation.

Simon:

There's a difference between optimism and positivity where Positivity

Simon:

is things are great when they're not always great, where optimism

Simon:

is things are going to get better.

Simon:

That's something that maybe lean into coaching so much because it's

Simon:

about bringing people forward.

Simon:

Absolutely, you have to empathize with their situation and where they are,

Simon:

but you need to step into their shoes first before you can bring them forward.

Simon:

And that's where.

Simon:

My value comes into when it comes to coaching and optimism,

Simon:

it's really interesting.

Simon:

When you said the aspirational values that kind of sparked off the thing in my head.

Simon:

One of them that I would have considered my satellite values and something that I

Simon:

always tried to lean into is creativity.

Simon:

And that's something that I've leaned into the last few months.

Simon:

In terms of creating things that whether they be learning interventions

Simon:

or content or stuff on, let's say, Canva that people get something from.

Simon:

And I'm nearly 38 years old, and I'm the most creative I've

Simon:

ever been in my entire career.

Simon:

which just shows you how much you can have an aspirational value and pull that

Simon:

into your day to day as much as you can.

Simon:

Try and find those opportunities, try and carve it out because

Simon:

one thing's given nobody's gonna create those opportunities for you.

Simon:

You have to carve them out yourself.

Rob:

That's very true.

Rob:

The act of coaching is very creative.

Rob:

Almost everything that I've learned has come from coaching and it's because you

Rob:

sit with someone, you get what they're feeling, you see their situation but

Rob:

you come from a different perspective.

Rob:

And so it's okay, how do you get them to see this?

Rob:

For me, like when I talk about the truth, the acceptance and the

Rob:

evolution, it's constantly breaking things down into little pieces.

Rob:

So you look at the basic building blocks and then it's

Rob:

how can we build a better model?

Rob:

How can we build a better model?

Rob:

I have the optimism that we can always build a better model and that's what

Rob:

powers that is that I always think that, okay, let's break this down.

Rob:

Let's take all the bits and then let's build something about better.

Rob:

So I can definitely see where that creativity is coming out.

Simon:

Yeah.

Simon:

When you find that outlet, it's fantastic.

Simon:

And you want to hold on to it and keep.

Simon:

Keep feeding it because you're afraid it's going to go away.

Rob:

Yeah.

Rob:

It's like a muscle and the more that you use it the stronger it grows.

Rob:

So typically, so if someone was looking for coaching, What problems

Rob:

might they be having at the moment?

Rob:

What kind of situation the kind of people that you ideally work

Rob:

with, what would they be like?

Rob:

What would the problems they're facing be like?

Rob:

And what would the process and the outcome likely be of working with you?

Simon:

You probably know as much as I do, when people come to you for

Simon:

coaching, it starts off with a problem and then evolves to something else.

Simon:

As a coach, it's nice to give them a kind of a structure and framework

Simon:

where, look, we'll adapt this to your needs, but we have some sort of a

Simon:

roadmap that can help you out here.

Simon:

And a lot of people come to me for clarity.

Simon:

They don't know the next steps and it's about finding out what's important

Simon:

to them to help that inform their next steps or where they want to go.

Simon:

Because a lot of us are dictated by external information that we have

Simon:

generated for ourselves in our careers.

Simon:

Starts off with our education.

Simon:

In terms of qualifications or third level and then it feeds into their

Simon:

first job and we see that part has to connect to that part has to connect to

Simon:

that part and we're not terrified, but apprehensive about looking internally and

Simon:

saying, what is actually important to me?

Simon:

Sometimes it can be a bit abstract where people need a little bit of help.

Simon:

They keep on thinking what skills do I have?

Simon:

And that's still external.

Simon:

what skills are people looking for?

Simon:

Dictated by somebody else as opposed to what's important to me.

Simon:

What are my strengths off the base of that?

Simon:

When I say strengths, I'm not talking just what am I good at?

Simon:

What gives me energy?

Simon:

Because you can be really strong at something, let's say Excel spreadsheets,

Simon:

and you absolutely hate them.

Simon:

You'd never want to work with an Excel spreadsheet again.

Simon:

What gives you energy?

Simon:

What you want to pursue.

Simon:

When people come to me about that clarity, that focus that they want.

Simon:

This can then feed into performance.

Simon:

And why do you want to perform at your job?

Simon:

It's because fulfillment, what you want to perform at a job or a career that

Simon:

you care about, and that is meaningful.

Simon:

And that stems again, from finding out their values.

Simon:

It is the foundational data that we use as a springboard going forward.

Simon:

You come up with a goal.

Simon:

I say, what does that have to do with your values?

Simon:

You come up with a career value, career move.

Simon:

What does that have to do with your values?

Simon:

So it always goes back to foundational data that is not dictated by anybody else.

Simon:

Because if you don't have strong values, External things will

Simon:

push and pull you towards them.

Simon:

And you've got so much information coming at you.

Simon:

What your organization wants, what your parents want, what your spouse wants, what

Simon:

society wants, what your manager wants.

Simon:

I think this would be a good move for you.

Simon:

Look, they're all just trying to help.

Simon:

But what do you really want?

Simon:

How many times do people ask themselves that?

Simon:

And sometimes they can be terrified of the answer because that requires change

Simon:

and change is the hardest thing to do.

Simon:

The easiest thing to do is do nothing.

Simon:

What is your default life going to be?

Simon:

And that's where coaches come in and can help them.

Simon:

And that's why it can be a bit of an investment because, what price can you

Simon:

put on Doing what you want to do in life.

Rob:

What you were saying there is so reminds me of one of my favorite quotes.

Rob:

I think it's ee cummings said the hardest thing to be in the world is to

Rob:

be yourself in a world that's pushing to make you into something else.

Rob:

There are so many demands that the world wants us to be a commodity because they

Rob:

want it to fit into their square holes.

Simon:

Look, there's so many things that can get in the way and we find ourselves

Simon:

on this career path where it's just one thing after the next and we're terrified

Simon:

of asking for something different.

Simon:

That can be dictated sometimes by people's reactions when we ask for

Simon:

something different and then we bank that and we don't make any changes

Simon:

and then family comes into the mix.

Simon:

I want to support my family.

Simon:

Also, we feel that should dictate everything, but we're terrified of

Simon:

making that change and change isn't like boom, one massive change one

Simon:

day, it's small, incremental steps.

Simon:

But first of all, you have to find out what's important to you.

Simon:

And then you can look at limiting beliefs.

Simon:

And see the things that are in your way.

Simon:

What really scares you?

Simon:

And you can challenge them because awareness is the first step to change.

Simon:

You're not changing anything you're not aware of.

Rob:

So many people need someone to give them permission because everything we're

Rob:

told is we're told you need permission.

Rob:

No, this is the path.

Rob:

This is what you should be doing.

Rob:

I often think of the Wizard of Oz, all going on the yellow brick road and

Rob:

they all think that they're missing something and they had it all along,

Rob:

but they just didn't recognize it.

Rob:

I guess that's probably really the path and the value that you can bring

Rob:

to someone to, to highlight what they already have and how to access it.

Rob:

In a way that I think society teaches you,.

Rob:

School, it teaches you all the stuff that it wants you to do, it wants you to be

Rob:

a good, solid, functioning citizen, but it doesn't teach you relationship, it

Rob:

doesn't teach you emotions, it doesn't teach you how to find what your thing is

Rob:

and so many people need help with that, so it's a valuable service you're providing.

Simon:

It's interesting when you said there about recognition and validation,

Simon:

that's like people tying themselves to outcome, whereas did you enjoy the

Simon:

process that led you to that outcome?

Simon:

What if you didn't need that validation?

Simon:

What if you didn't need that recognition?

Simon:

You just love the process of doing it.

Simon:

What is the point in creating or coming up with a goal when

Simon:

you're going to absolutely hate the process of getting there?

Simon:

People discount that all the time.

Simon:

They're looking for that piece of paper or qualification or achievement.

Simon:

That when they go through the mud and the rubbish and the horribleness,

Simon:

they're just going to like the outcome and get the recognition.

Simon:

And look, by the time they come to that outcome, it's going to be an anti climax

Simon:

and they'll just be onto the other thing.

Simon:

Pick goals where you're going to be like, I'm absolutely loving this.

Simon:

Not that they're going to be easy.

Simon:

There's going to be hard parts.

Simon:

But pick goals where it's I'm actually excited to create this.

Rob:

That's why for me it's all about freedom.

Rob:

Because if you have freedom from emotions, freedom from relationships, freedom from

Rob:

money, freedom from all of these things you're left with, what do I choose?

Rob:

You naturally follow that.

Rob:

And I can see the whole values kind of thing in that, because whatever

Rob:

we do, there's going to be work.

Rob:

Often you talk to younger people and they're choosing what career and we do

Rob:

choose careers because of, it makes sense.

Rob:

What we need to do.

Rob:

Is back ourselves really that we are have some inherent value and what

Rob:

we're looking for I think so many people always look at the context

Rob:

that's valuable But what they really need to look at is what their value?

Rob:

Then find the context where their value is most highly valued.

Rob:

The value isn't in you as a coach.

Rob:

The value is in The context that they're in.

Rob:

So someone who's going to go from 100 grand to 300 grand

Rob:

there's 200 grand of value.

Rob:

Someone who's going to go from nothing to 20 grand, there's only 20 grand of value.

Rob:

So the value is not in you.

Rob:

The value is in the context that you're operating in.

Rob:

It's finding what you have and then finding the context where

Rob:

that creates the most value.

Simon:

Yeah, it's very nicely said.

Simon:

And it's when you said the part about freedom and freedom is a scary thing.

Simon:

Freedom is, Oh no, I have to come up with my own working day myself,

Simon:

my own structures, there's a nice comfort in the structures that

Simon:

are given to us by organization.

Simon:

Definitely.

Simon:

But When people are saying yes to freedom, my question is can somebody

Simon:

else make the decision for me, please?

Simon:

Can somebody, please?

Simon:

Could I if somebody else is making this decision, Then I

Simon:

don't have to worry about it.

Rob:

Yeah, that's the dark side.

Rob:

There's definitely dark sides and it's there needs to be a lot in

Rob:

place in order to have freedom.

Simon:

Yeah, definitely and it goes back to what you said

Simon:

like you have to back yourself.

Simon:

If you come to the realization that you don't need support, you don't

Simon:

need recognition, you don't need validation, you can just throw yourself

Simon:

into that process of what you want to do, then there's freedom for you.

Rob:

Yeah.

Rob:

That's a huge one.

Rob:

Freedom from what other people think.

Simon:

Absolutely.

Simon:

Comparison to others.

Simon:

We think everybody's watching what was this RuPaul said, other people's

Simon:

opinion of you is none of your business.

Rob:

Yeah, I've heard it.

Rob:

No one's watching.

Rob:

No one cares.

Rob:

You don't matter.

Rob:

It's harsh, but It's a great lesson to bear in mind when, whenever

Rob:

you're talking, because how hard it is to get someone's attention.

Rob:

You can do the most stupid thing, fall over in the road.

Rob:

And people will laugh, but they'll have forgotten it in a day.

Simon:

I'd be curious as to how much that message is being said to young

Simon:

people, because if you're in school, it's all about comparison, it really is.

Simon:

In terms of our education system, nobody cares.

Simon:

Nobody cares about if you, if we drill that in from a young age,

Simon:

that's a freeing experience.

Simon:

Because, when it comes to education, or even third education, going through,

Simon:

or even your first kind of job, the amount of comparison that is there

Simon:

is so burdening and it shouldn't be, it shouldn't be something that only

Simon:

experienced people come across that freedom on comparison to others.

Simon:

We should get that from a young age.

Rob:

We should, but the problem is that the system isn't free

Rob:

because the system is constrained.

Rob:

It's political.

Rob:

Yeah, I could just go on an hour long rant and I want to be respectful of your time.

Rob:

I'll leave it there before I get on my soapbox.

Simon:

Yeah, here Rob.

Simon:

I'd be happy to jump on a conversation and talk about education.

Simon:

Definitely.

Simon:

But that this has been great.

Simon:

I really appreciate it.

Rob:

Actually, maybe that's a great topic for a conversation.

Rob:

Definitely.

Rob:

But it's been lovely to talk to you and get to know more.

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About the Podcast

The Unified Team
One team. One Goal. How do we more successfully join with others to achieve more?
How do we join with others to achieve, belong and connect more with less friction?

Humans aren't the strongest or the fastest. Our superpower is working together. We are a social creature.

We need to belong and be valued within our tribe.

But we hit 3 main friction points in teams:

1. We lack trust because of a lack of integrity, suspicion and past resentments.
2. We don't communicate well because of fear, insecurity and feeling unsafe.
3. We have divided goals because of politics, power struggles and personality conflicts.

A team is two or more people joined to achieve the same goal. It can be a marriage. Or a multinational organisation.

The principles still apply

Every team needs communication, resources and energy to flow to where we need it when we need it.

The barrier is friction.

How do we reduce friction and get teams to flow?

That is the question we address in The Unified Team Podcast.