The Art of Relating

Welcome to Honest talk about heartbreak, dating and relationships, relationships to podcast helping you navigate your past to happy ever after with your own prod. Mcphillips.

Okay, welcome back. Tonight, we're talking about the awesome relating. So I feel like with what I'm going to talk about tonight, I feel like I should start by talking about most people when they're looking for. If they talk about the art of relating, they're thinking that they're going to get some tips or they're going to get strategies or tactics that are going to help them relate better. And there's a problem in that that I'm going to talk about. But this is really looking at where is the breaking point of relating?

When were the idea we're relating is where we stand in relation to? And so we have everything in life, our experience and how we relate to that object, to that idea, to that person, to that experience. So there's something that there's a quote that I've been obsessed about. It's just keeps coming into my head. And that is from Alfred Kozinski, which is the map is not the territory. I don't know if you've heard that before, but essentially it refers to every map. In order to be useful.

It has to be a miniature of the territory of the reality and the fact that that it has to be scaled down. It has to be hard. Less detail means that is flawed. Now all of us operate in life according to our map. That's something I want you to kind of have in the back of your mind as we go through this. So when we look at problems in relationships, they're really about a lack of communication and inability to resolve conflict and a sense of lost connection.

So the biggest problems people talk about in dating is that they feel that they treated like an object and not a person. And I think if we look at any of our interactions, whether it's passing someone industry or whether we're complaining that we have a company that we've got an issue with, it's when we don't feel cared for, when we feel like we're an object, when you call up a support desk and they tell you something, even though you've already explained it isn't that and they're just reading their script or someone who's trying to sell you something.

What we really want is to be treated as an individual. What we really want is to feel, listen to seem understood and cared for in all of our relationships, whether it's a company that we're dealing with our family or our lover when we're looking now. So let's say we're looking more at an intimate, romantic relationship. There's a central relationship conflict, and that is that we go in even before we meet. I have this idea of why I want this relationship to be. I have an idea of who I think is going to be that person that's going to make me happy so what a lot of people's experience on dating?

People talk to them like they're trying to fit them into their box is to make their dream perfect, that everything will be fine then. So the central relationship conflict is that we both come into the relationship with these dreams. This idea in our head of what we want that person to be, let's say he and she so she's going, okay, would you want this? And they're looking in. They're going get tick that box, tick that Potiphar box and his gun. Years tick that box initially, at the beginning of a relationship is a bit like a plane flying from here to say, America.

And we might both want to go to New York. And so we say, yeah, we're on the same page. We want the same things. But when we get to New York, they want to go to Central Park. And I want to go to Empire State Building or something that's completely far apart in New York. And so as you travel through the journey of the relationship, and you have more and more experiences which reveal your maps to each other, you find that the person that you thought you were so on the same page that there's a big difference.

What then happens is couples into their relationship. Are they're, like, nearly there? I just need to drag him over here and everything is going to be perfect. And he's gone, well, if she would just come over here, we'd both be happy, and everything will be fine. And so there's this tug where we're pulling in two different directions. And so what happens is in the stress and whatever. That's where the break comes. And that's the breaking point of the relationship, the relationship my, my might finally end when there's a big row, when there's years you've been fed up with a relationship for years, it might come to someone cheats.

But often the breaking point in a relationship was far before. At that point where you lost that connection because you are tagging in different directions. So when a couple feels like we've just grown apart because they've gone in different directions. So there's this kind of this poll to poor people. And that's when we feel like we're becoming an object in someone else's dream, we feel like they don't really care about me. They just care about their house and their family and all this. And so that's a point where we lose connection.

Now, if we go even further back, that there's a more basic conflict. And this is the basic conflict. That is the problem at the root of every other people problem. And this problem is that we've got the pull of biology, of what we feel, our instincts, our drives are leading us towards something. But what then happened is that we've got the push of social rules and social norms. You should be doing this. You should be doing this. And so if you look at here is like the Victorian era, where is all very puritanical.

And yet everyone was shagging mistresses, whatever, like in hiding. So there's a distinction between what people reveal and what people actually do. And that is because of this basic conflict. This basic conflict is why we don't have clear communication because we're ashamed of what's hidden. And we don't want to reveal that. And yet biologically re driven to those behaviors. This is really one talking about the map in a territory. So the territory is the biology, the biology of you, me, everyone else, the biology of the actual real experience of what we're having.

And the map is our superimposed beliefs, depending on our culture, depending on our religion, depending on our family, and depending on our experience, we make this map because of the overwhelming nature of life. We just have to use shortcuts. If we want more truth in our relationships, then we have to change our relationship to truth, because that is what's on the basis of relationship conflicts and relate loss of connection and communication. And now, if you look like every newspaper is like a dear diary column, some agony uncle, there's all these YouTube videos, there's all these books of advice and all of this stuff.

And essentially, what I'm out to is someone says, you know, I've got this, you know, my boyfriend, girlfriend, wife, husband, person down the road has done this thing. What should I do? And or it may just be like, here's the five tips that you need to be to do this, this and this and what it really is, is it maybe someone who's got about map, then you so it can be helpful to a point. But what you're doing is you're imposing a map, whether it's yours or someone else's, a map that was necessarily reductionist, an error, an erroneous.

And you're imposing that map on the territory. And so you're imposing a social map on a biological experience. And so the breaking point where that stops working is because it introduces judgment. It introduces a lack of communication and therefore a lack of connection.

So.

The alternative is to sick truth. And by truth, I don't mean the truth is written in the Bible. The truth that you have the truth to someone else has. I mean, the fact of what actually happens, because all we can do is we can hypothesize. And so religions, our maps, everything else is really a hypothesis of what we can't experience, of what we can't know for sure in a relationship. It means rather than assuming what someone means, assuming how someone is and why they did something. It's finding out understanding someone through communication rather than assumption and expectation.

And through the process of that communication, you are then increasing the connection. For me, I think there's really six levels of relating.

So.

What we've got here is we've got the tipping point. And this below the tipping point is seeking to impose your map on the territory and above the line is seeking to understand the territory. Every interaction, every moment is really a choice between imposing your map on someone on an experience or connect. And so the six levels are. So the bottom level is to dictate is to tell others what they should think, feel, say or do. The next level is to dramatize, to make it all about the drama about the emotions and how we feel.

The next level is to deny, and when we deny, it can be that we're ignoring the bad. So often people will get into about what will later become a bad relationship. And they'll say, well, the warning signs were all there because this happened early on. This happened. They're only on by ignored it. And what they're doing is denying the bits that don't want to fit their dream. It can be people pleasers, who deny their feelings in order to because their map says that if they please people that everything will turn out right.

So the next level is to ask to ask. So when we're asking it's sick truth, but it's so that we have enough facts that we can construct a narrative from. But it's still constructing a narrative which is good or bad. The level of acceptance is to accept reality as it is negative point of this is it can become a martyr that doesn't try to change it. I just accept what is. And then the final stage is to align, which is really to accept everything and find a way to use the good and the bad to help us evolve.

So the bottom free levels are really about navigating to our goals. And the higher level is using our experience to enrich and evolve our goals. Yes, sue, did you mean to deny? I'm just looking in a chat about lacking integrity between the map and the territory. There is always a gap where I want to go from here is when you came on this call, you had certain assumptions, expectations. There was some reason that everyone's been motivated. Everyone came on this call for a reason. Everyone had something in their mind and that would have been some assumption expectations, something that you are looking to understand how to relate to.

Now we need in the discussion we can make seven. That's quite abstract and quite high level, more personal and talk about how this relates to you to your relationships and anything else that can be obvious to everyone. Is there anything that struck people? Is there anything in the breakers that you think would be worth bringing into the main conversation?

Yes, I have, because actually I was given a blow heart blow in the last few days, but today I realized it more today because I was seeking the truth. So this conversation, this meeting and sand was also talking to me. I bought a lot of very good like it clicks. It kind of clicks. So it's making me come out and look at neutrality. So it's very good and actually talking about the intention to come. I mean, I thought when I come, I'm just going to run out.

I don't want to talk. I'm upset. I'm looking to express anything because I just don't have anything to say. When you're in that space, you don't want to talk. You like that. You complete, like, broken. But, you know, coming here and speaking of talking, it's not so bad. And thank you.

And that's it.

Well, thanks.

Are you like, are you quite happy talking about it? Or or is it a moment?

No, it's not at all. It's just that it's just that I received so much, so much beauty from this connection that I had like, I've never, ever experienced something so beautiful. And it changed me. It transformed me. And it taught me so many things. And so now my heart is just like, so we. But he has also taught me to be more stable. So I would be really, really, like Jim Berry. Let's say he's quite passionate when he's in a relation. I'm very passionate as well. Everything I do with passion, I do it or I don't.

If I'm not passionate, I don't. So relationship is the same thing. But somehow I think being part of here in this platform, it's making me much more neutral. And actually to see clearly what I have to do is just that the time is perfect for me to elevate on to another level and just to let go. And that's it. But it's like my stomach is, like, so uncomfortable and I'm so comfortable to let go of this beautiful being. You know, that's all it is. That's all I let's say, really.

So thanks for listening.

I think emotions and feelings can dominate us until we accept because they'll consume. But we have to experience they are a biological reaction, and they're there to get our attention to get our focus. When we experience them and take what we can from them, then they tend to pass something that we need to feel but not get lost in. You can kind of get lost in the emotion, but if you really go fully into it, it changes. Thank you for sharing.

I wouldn't mind to have that. You know, you had the main photo, and then you had another one, which I missed because I was trying to screenshot the other one. Copy. So there was another one. It was like on the white background with words. I wouldn't mind just to screenshot that point, because when I see this, I can go back and look.

Okay.

So if you know which one I'm talking about because you had the first one, which I've got. And then there was another one. I was writing it's.

Slide 30, Rob that black and white.

Onethat'S the one.

Let me just that's something else that wasn't for night.

Oh, isn't it. Oh, I I looked at that and I thought.

Yeah, I want that.

I think because you play in it. It goes on to different, different things for these all just. But. Yeah, that was. Can you remember? But that's home. Something else.

Okay. I've just got it. Anyway. I think I'd like that one.

Thank you, Nicole, explain toxicity. She put toxicity in the Chapel.

I was just saying I was just trying to explain the thing that Veroni was looking for. I just noticed on that little bit before.

Okay.

Yeah, that was types of relationships. What is the biggest barrier you have to relate in for the moment, what is in the way of you and the relationships that you'd like.

Letting go of control, I guess, would be the one. I don't want to say that, as in, I don't feel unnecessarily a controlling person. I don't feel like a particularly control because he thought is quite repugnant to me, and I wouldn't want anyone to do that to me. I think I'm very much moving much more towards absence. I feel, I guess it's just kind of not having control over someone, but it's kind of almost. I need stability to feel safe enough to open up and relate to another.

So if I don't do that, everything's all quite stable, and it's bloody scary, essentially.

So.

Yeah. And I think that that might have hindered me accepting before. I don't really want to say that either, but I think to an extent, it might have done. But now, as we're talking in the room, I think you sort of bring things to the table that we're talking about. But in boundaries in place on what you do if people disrespect your boundaries and that kind of thing. And I very much learned that I can't make anyone respect my boundaries. And to be quite Frank.

I don't want to.

They either want to or they don't. They want to meet me there or they I don't need to talk anyone into it. We're not compatible, but no trail now.

Okay.

Thing.

Do you notice the difference between the biology of what you feel and the social rules, norms, of what you're judging already of your experience.

What do you mean? Give me a.

Okay. So what you've talked about is I think all of us have a control strategy. You'll have a way that we try to control the world and our experience that makes us feel safer. So my control strategy is to know. So I've always read lots because I feel like if I know enough, I can understand, and then that gives me some level of control. So we all have a way of controlling, trying to control people behavior, experience. So what you talk about is the same for everyone, but just some people aren't aware of it.

So you've become aware of that. But then you've judged what is natural. Like, I don't want to admit you. I don't want to say Congratulations on being brave enough to be honest and being aware of it because a lot of people. So that means that really you're above the line because being below the line, you wouldn't even register that because you'd be suitable.

I'm done now.

I can go now.

Yeah, that's natural. I like to accept this really hard. And then a line is even a step further.

Kind of exciting, though, when you do as I do start to tap myself and others, it just feels so bloody healthy and things just rose so naturally and organically or they don't, which is sort of giving me more resilience, I think, because I want to let go because I know that. And then when someone isn't good for me, I need to let go. And I'm not too bad at doing that. But yeah, it's just feeling pretty bloody healthy, actually.

Well, if you think about it, what people below the line on doing is they're trying to pull everything together and it's like the politics pull this. And so they're experience they're really frustrating to people because wouldn't you just do this? It's like a parent with ten kids and they're like, Come here, stop that. You. And it's like it's exhausting because you're trying to pull all these elements. But as soon as often people think strength is having the character and the will to impose your will on people.

Like, our whole idea of the Alpha Mel is that I'm going so strong, charismatic and whatever. I'm going to impose my will. But really, that's exhausting. And if instead, like, the strength is not being able to get what you want and impose your will. Strength is really not needing things from people, not because ultimately, the person that has most control. If you look at styling or you look at any kind of dictator.

So.

all those generations, like,: 6100

So he doesn't need money. He's never run for office. So what power is he going to have? And the idea people do things for status, for money or for power. So it's not to get money on power, and he's not going to get status from it. So what would motivate him when you look from that basis when you look at Hitler, who did so much evil, but you're looking at why did he do it? And people go to for power for whatever he ended up humiliated, afraid that his body was going to be used to humiliate him.

Hold up in a bunker where he he apparently was the military way to kill yourself. The strong way to kill yourself is to put the bullet in your brain. He apparently had Parkinson's, and he wasn't sure he could do it. So he had a sin tablet, a bullet, and had someone there as backup to shoot him because he was terrified that his body would be used to humiliate him. So someone who people kind of a grand is as in he was this evil figure that changed a nation.

He couldn't.

There were things that Hitler tried to do that he couldn't do because public opinion wouldn't go with it. So he wasn't one man. He was one man created a narrative that's fitted with a lot of other people.

So.

What I'm trying to say is someone who is given so much credit for being me evil genius. What did he gain? He had the power of control of his country. He had enough wealth that he could have left off and just retired. And yet he was driven. So people think that he was driven because I was his personal agenda. But if it was his personal agenda, he would have stopped. He wouldn't have gone to a world war that he was likely to lose.

Rob, sorry to interrupt. But don't you think that the self loathing that he said to have govern him unleashed that the beginnings of that. But the believers took it over. So even if he had wanted to stop at a certain point, I think the machinery had got beyond him in a sentence. And so I think he probably had to continue or be obliterated himself.

Yeah, I think he was committed. And I think thinking he was committed to an idea. And I think because when you look at the German story, like the Germans have persecuted Jews for centuries, like they kept him in the ghettos. Yeah. The point I'm trying to make is that that isn't strength, styling someone who has to control everyone to portray an image that isn't strength, that's actually weakness. That's someone so that's I understand he was driven by his demons. And lots of people that impose their will on the world is from force of fear, from being driven by demons.

So something that really so I read a quote years ago, and it was from Napoleon Bonaparte. And so Napoleon was to do the most powerful man in his time. But he been lost a battle of also, wasn't it? And he was exiled and joined his exile. He had time to reflect. And he said, people like me, the Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar. We commanded great armies. But as time soon passed, and he said, when you look at someone like Jesus Christ, he never thought had no army, had no force, didn't impose.

And yet he still loved: 2000

And I ask a question in relation to that just because I get where you're coming from in terms of having my material possessions or needing something, it means you're kind of reliant or dependent on having nothing to be satisfied. But if you kind of let go of the need of all of those things, you don't really have anything to kind of do, almost because there's nothing driving you to do anything, which you just kind of satisfied at that point. And I found because I spent an awful lot of time on my own and I really hated it.

So it became like a need to kind of communicate with people. And I was just like, desperate, though, for people, and you try and kind of rain that in. I thought, Well, I'll just be satisfied with the situation that I'm in and then one ball I don't do anymore because I'm just kind of happy as it is. But you find that you stop finding a way to relate to people because you don't care about clothes or cars, which other people do. So they struggle to understand you in a sense, because you can't relate to them on that front because you don't care about cars, neon or whatever.

I'm just curious what your thoughts are on that it's actually one of something to kind of drive you, if that makes sense.

Yeah. Okay. So thank you because you've helped me clarify, really a point. I didn't make clear that I'm going to distinguish between needs between primary needs and secondary needs. So there are primary currencies, like connection, love, like a feeling of success, significant contribution, meaning purpose, their primary. I think of his primary currencies. So we all need those. But what I'm talking about is a secondary currencies. So in order to fill important, people feel that they need to design a clothes, people feel that they need to car.

People feel that they need power or something like that. Secondary currencies are things that we chase and like in golf, if you the idea is that you get the ball in the hole, but when you're 200 yards out, the whole is too small. So you go for the green. And what happens is people go for the green instead of the whole. And so people chase money status. What they really want is feeling of significance, connection, that kind of thing. I think biological, there is always so those primary needs.

We always want more. So the nature of need is that we always want more. And so we always want more connection. We always want more meaning. I think there is always something that we want. So even in that time, there was something that you wanted.

Yeah.

So, for instance, to me, it was related to the people, this kind of thing for the people. But if you don't want any of those secondary things, but that's sort of, I guess, the language that everybody else uses because that's how they relate to each other if she can't communicate in that way. So, for instance, talking about I really want to go on this holiday or whatever it is you have nothing to talk to other people about because you don't have a currency to kind of build those connections with people.

That's what people talk about, the day to day, if that makes sense. Not necessary cars, but anything like these football, for example, it's a bit small, but just doesn't interest you. I don't know how to kind of explain it.

I kind of get that. But was there did you have some sense of purpose, something that you were working towards, something that you wanted.

So I always had, like, I had a decent job and hobbies and interests and things that are just kind of like, periphery things thing I do. But I never had a strong group of friends because I moved around quite a bit. So that was kind of. My main goal was making friends, which is not necessarily the healthy thing, because you could, like a color thing before. You can't make other people do things so you can't sort of just make a friendship out of nothing. You have to have something, some means of relating to the people through, if that makes sense, I don't know how you do that without it overtaking, if that makes sense.

Yes. What a lot of men find. So when I have men's groups and he was to talk about relationships. But the biggest thing that men wanted was friends because they say you can play football, but they only do football. You can go down the pub, but they only go down the pub. And so it was compartment license. So they had all these different kind of friends, but none that crossed over. And what Nicole said is kind of what comes out when you were talking is that the people that you were relating to, where maybe people from work, or maybe something like that.

You were stuck with a group where you're at is going to determine who you're going to connect to most. And the type of relationships are going to most unfold. And it tends that our friendships come from a shared interest because people do want to connect, but people don't generally go. I'm interest in connecting unless it's data. So it's kind of like a triangle. It has to have somebody else to have a focus, because otherwise it's too intense. Okay. What's your deepest so you want an interest?

I think because of your solitude meant that you overwhelmingly want connection. But I guess there's probably other things, like maybe you were meeting the other things that you were doing some work or that had taken a back burner or something. But I'm thinking there may have been hobbies that you missed or something like that, and that would be the way that you would find the people. Because what I'm trying to get is I think there's still other things that you wanted.

I'm not quite sure what you mean. So for example, I guess it relates to what you're saying about you have different friends in different groups. But the only reason that they're going is because they have an interest in that thing, which is absolutely fair enough. Like that's. Why? For these things. But for me, it was just kind of like that was an excuse to go on. You just chatter people, basically. So there was nothing really like pulling me to go and do anything. It was just kind of like, oh, what?

I quite enjoy this. I might as well go because I might chapter somewhere on that, I guess.

I don't know.

I don't know how.

Yeah. So what attracts someone? It's different than where the style and what attracts you to someone to an activity is different way. You say a lot of people are attracted to a group, to a hobby, but they stay for the community. They stay for the deeper feelings. Like, for example, in martial arts, people sometimes all join because they want to be tougher. They want to look after themselves or something like that. But the only reason they'll stay is because it gives them something deeper and because otherwise people will just be there for a little while and then they'll move on.

And that kind of relates to like that's. The Michel bet that gets you in a relationship with someone. And then it's the connection that develops. What I'm trying to get at is while we're breathing. There is always something that we want to do. There's someone we want to connect to. There's some cause or thing that we want to contribute to is something that we want to share, which is like our legacy is something that we want to achieve. What I talked about is relating to reality, but aligning with reality doesn't mean so there's a distinction between aligning and accepting, because accepting is not trying to change it.

But aligning is using that to have a bigger goal, because when you look at the story of the Buddha and these are accounts of people thousands of years ago. But I think it's a good example of the Buddha found enlightenment and then live for, like, another four years that he lived to share what he gained. So I don't know if you're familiar with the hero's journey in the section of it.

Yeah.

As in Joseph Campbell's idea of the hero's journey, which is that essentially it's free phases that you leave the ordinary world you go through some trial or some journey which changes you. And then the return is you return a changed person. You return with the Boom, something that's going to be of benefit to mankind. So if you look at Star Wars, The Matrix, the Hobbit, or any of those, they all like Luke Skywalker left his home, saved the Galactic Jedi Force or whatever they call, and he came back, changed.

The Hobbit is probably similar. I've not watched all that. The Matrix is no is the one he goes to this the world. He downloads all those skills. But more than that, it's about he believes in himself. And then there's that moment where suddenly he all kicks into place. And he's like, dodging bullets and, Ah, you can't become enlightened without watching Scifi. And he was changed. And that's the moment where he knew he was the one. And then the rest was the details. And it sounds like you had what I'm guessing is probably a profound experience because of that.

And what that means is you can return back to you could do your everyday things like your different because of that experience. And you can bring what you learned in that experience to those relationships.

I don't know how you would use that to kind of relate to people work. They don't understand. It's like trying to describe a new colors. You know what I mean until you've seen it, but you can't really.

Okay. I've got a little bit more. There are lots of, like, Buddha on his journey became an aesthetic. So he was a Prince. He had everything he realized that model was flawed. He went and he gave up everything to the point of nearly killing, dying. And this is what lots of people do, as in they they think Renunciation is the path and not experiencing. And then he found, like, the middle way, which is not giving up, but just not over indulging. And so.

So.

I was talking about primary currencies and secondary currencies. And it doesn't mean that you are not interested in the secondary countries because they're secondary currencies. You can still going to need money because you're still going to need to function. You're still going to need clothes and it's going to be closed that you're going to prefer. So it doesn't mean that you I'm interested in the secondary currencies. It means you're not driven by them because the people who are driven, like we talked about Hitler or people who are driven to have billions is because they've mistaken the primary currency for the secondary one.

People whose parents told them going to be good enough or going whatever that they feel that they need to prove to someone they're driven by the secondary currency. So it's not that you're not interested in that. Okay. So how do I relate that back to? So it sounds like something happened that you lost the interest, and that might be a reaction, but it's probably like you might not be as passionate, but you can still engage if you understand. I don't know if that changes when you came back in and that evolved and changed.

I.

Don'T know. To me, it wasn't really like a specific thing. It's just happened over time. I don't know. You look around what people are doing and you kind of think I know you kind of missing the point of it, but it is gradual. I find it harder and harder to relate because I don't understand the compulsion.

Okay.

If that makes sense.

Yeah, it does. So this is like a literary thing. And I'm not very literary. But Dantes nine nine circles of help. So Dante's idea is that hell is other people and all the people who are all the people who lie or on one level or the people who still are on another level or the people I can't remember the exact levels, but it's kind of like that the people who lie still cheap her others, all the dictators are another level. And each level of hell with those type of people.

Does that make sense? Do you get the idea of that? So each level of hell is a different level of relating. Okay, everyone. Okay. So let's put it this way. Imagine the first level is everyone who steals the next level is everyone who dies. The next level is like all the rapists. The next level is all the violence, and the next level is the dictators, all that kind of thing, the frauds and all that. Right. There's similar circles in life of how deeply people relate to life.

And I think what happened is you rose up so that you want consumed. So like if you look at the people who love the Kardashians and Love Island and that kind of very superficial, like the only basic and all those type of stuff. And then there's people who are struggling to fill the Cappe ple who are really concrete material. It's about the car that they have the house that have all of that stuff. And then there's people that are really about humanistic, theistic yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Thank you for that. Because I've been struggling for words. So there's that level. And if you've seen through the illusion of the concrete, the super visual, the people who are on that level is going to be hard to relate to. So in that sense, the picture I got was you were like, how to set group that you stuck with. And it felt like it's more like the kind of people you needed a different type of people to relay on the level of depth that you wanted.

I.

Can I ask you a question? You mentioned your hobbies were sort of. I got the impression that you thought that they were not mainstream enough that your hobbies were sort of off to decide. Can you give me an idea of what one of your hobbies me make me sure I mean.

It'S not necessarily that I didn't think they were the mainstream is just like, I mean, I do normal things. I thought, like a tower, and I do get kick open. I do also to believe, but it was never really like, I don't know. It's more just I happen to enjoy this. So I'm going to carry on doing it rather than like, I need to be the best guitarist or something. It seems like. But you're never going to be best at something. So just enjoying the level. Obviously, you're trying to get better at it.

But it's not the thing that compels you to do. It's just enjoying doing it almost, if that makes sense.

Yeah. But then is it that I suffer from the same thing? I do things that are very solid. Well, for me, they're solid try. I can do them without anybody else. And when I tell people what I love and really love, it like, yeah, you're kind of off on Mars or somewhere something different. But nonetheless, I find that pursuing those pleasures gives me so much pleasure that it gives me a high. And as a result of that, I don't know. I don't really feel that I'm confined in a very solitary space that I'm living a solitary existence.

But nonetheless, yes, I do want to relate, because I'll tell you, it took me for this 30 odd years to convince my my best friend to grow an Orchid plant. And when I taught her, she now has the most beautiful. I mean, her neighbors are just looking at. I mean, she's got overboard, okay? She's got more than me. All right? And she's like, oh, and, oh, you're the perfect student. I just love you. But before that, she's like, oh, you are so strange. What is this obsession with these plans?

The blah, blah, blah so. And as an organ grower in Jamaica, I was one of the younger ones. So everybody would be like, what are you doing? All these old fogies kind of spin. But guess what? It gave me enormous pleasure. But talking to those people who would not be my friends out on a Friday or a Saturday night, I got such joy from listening to their stories. I made different types of friendships and relationships with them. I met their children, their grandchildren.

You know what I mean?

We did all sorts of different, I think, friendships for me not to see. I want friends, and they must fit a certain box, just like relationships. It's what it's something that you connect with probably sometimes the strangest of persons. And you get such an enrichment from it because of what they bring that you have not seen. And I think, yeah, the football crowd and the bear Goslin, the pup can be quite limiting. But, I mean, you're playing the guitar. There's so many people who love to learn to play the guitar.

I think you should think that they're not opportunities to connect with other people. As I say, I embroider, how many people do we sit down with the embroidery needle, sticking it through a piece of class? Who can I talk to? But it's not stopping me. That's the point. And I think you shouldn't deny yourself the pleasures that you really enjoy because they actually make you probably more interesting than the average. So are talking about. Granted, I'm an Arsenal fan, not anymore, because they are cleaning any help moving right along.

So I will talk to everybody about that. But nonetheless, I add those to my repertoire.

Okay.

And I am totally passionate about EPON and Lewis Hamilton. Don't say anything bad about that. All I'm saying is that I have over the years, I think add enough things that allows me to speak to people enough that I can connect. But nonetheless, my pleasures that really resonate with me are mine. And you don't have to, like, put up to review them to you. I don't know if that helps.

Yeah, definitely works. It's a really interesting point of view. I think it's very similar, like, those interactions that you have with people through that thing at that time is brilliant because you're like, yes, I really understand. But then when you come out with that, for example, I joined a hiking group and it was mainly, like, 60, 70 year old, 70 year olds. And I loved it. It was great because they all have lots of really interested in talk about. But when you come away from that, you need to connect with someone that's, like, your own age and that kind of thing.

And it's very difficult if they don't have that sort of. I don't know. Nobody else wants to do that. If that makes sense. There's not many people like you that take interest in and things. And I think that's why I stroll with a little bit. I really appreciate sharing to be interested.

One thing that just pops to mind before on. He is another thing. Like if connection is the goal, then just being really curious and interested in what they're interested in. So like, if you go deeply. So it's a bit like emotions if someone's interested in designer close in that, if you go deeply into it. And like, why why that about that? And so they're kind of talking eventually. That's going to that's going to burn out of the designer clothes. But it's going to be. But what's behind that and what's behind that is like, why are you really into designer clothes?

What does it mean to you? And what you're doing is you can take any because of all passions or interests. Behind them is the universal dynamics, because the secondary currencies, there is a primary currency underneath them. And as you get to that, like, because of the work I do, I get to have those discussions where someone is, like, really pursuing something. And it's really because of something that happened to them in childhood is because there's something they feel is lacking in them. But you have to have a certain level of connection, which may be true.

The superficial.

I.

Think everyone on here sees that the superficial is flimsy.

Bar.

The superficial is really important because those people on to those people on Love Island, and whatever is really important to them, like, it really matters, and it really matters because of something that they're feeling, which is the universal. And that's the bit that you connect to. So if it's about connection, you can just it doesn't matter what it is. But if you delve in in the same way, like Venice delves into the emotion she gets, what was the message behind the emotion? And the same way the superficial has something deeper behind it, because all of these things are under pinned by universal human dine dynamic.

Eric, sorry for Rambling, but you've been very patient.

No, it's nice to hear no. When I was here in Jake, I just felt because part of changing sometimes when you do release, you realize you don't need anything, you're just so satisfied with everything that's around. And so you become quiet. And you don't know how to express this. If people around you are not in that kind of level of energy, you have nothing to say. And also remember when I was younger, I mean, I never could speak. And I remember going to the pub with workers, the people I was working with, and they had so much to talk about.

And I was striking to see. But every time I wanted to say something, I had so much to talk about, but every time I wanted to say, I know they're not going to find this interesting. I'm just vicious. And I was living like this. I had to do a course in communication. I went to I forgot which place and just to act. And that served me because it made me act to be the recipient or the thing. And that's the only way I learned, because communication is you have to learn it.

If you're not told by your family or people around you, it's like, I don't know how to expand that. So that really helped me. And now, even though I I am in that state of complete like this, it's just like even in these conversations, I just suddenly something comes to topic comes, and I just want to express it. Now. I don't stop. But oh, my God, before I could never speak because you're thinking because also the energies of water. Sometimes they are so confident. And when they speak, you're like, totally involved in what they're saying.

And so you've become so minimal if you have no interest. No, because you're done. And because you're so evolved. Actually, this is what happens. And so you don't relate with the normal kind of people. So then you have to get some Hoops like this. And now it's easier because obviously with covering it is much easier you get to know about them anyway. But yeah, that's it. Thank you.

Think. Yeah. And actually, what we have today is because the world is so interconnected in the Internet and stuff. Is that anything you are interested in? There is something about Andronic while you were talking, it kind of made me think of. There are groups like this practice call circling, which is really just people go on and but life for you. What are you feeling? And it's kind of like you circle someone emotions and experience, and it is purely about relating internally and explaining it. I'm okay. Anyone else or any for questions.

Insights.

Earlier this evening, I think we were having quite a a discussion about the essence of truth in a relationship, but also looking at one the ability to accept the truth as it's presented to you. Otherwise, you get caught up in this process of investigation interrogation, you become obsessive about that which removes you from the essence of the relationship. You become almost like a guard of a judge prosecution in a sense, prosecutor in a sense. So you yeah, we want honesty. But alongside honesty comes a willingness. Except, of course, within it limits that you can accept what has been presented to you.

If it's not outright is that you can pick holes into and you have a level of trust in the person, you can't spend your time questioning everything that's presented to you, because then that becomes the thread that that runs right through the relationship. And this notion that we give each other space to evolve can't happen because that by virtue of questioning and not trusting you're, putting boundaries in place around the person's ability to grow, to move, to be themselves and stuff because they can offend their actions can be misconstrued.

All kinds of doubts and questions come into play.

So.

We were discussing this that no matter what is happening with underpinning of truth and honesty, those concepts and acceptance, on the other hand, on the other side, or the ability to accept what's presented as being Truthful enough, the common theme that runs only through any relationship.

Okay. There's a lot in that. I want to share this because what I was butchering earlier on. So this is the data Dantes levels. So it's kind of limbo, lust, gluttony, greed, anger, heresy, violence, fraud, treachery.

So.

s meaningfully and know about: 1500

They decide that this per person meets their checklist and they try to fit them to be the partner. And what I've always said is you should relax, not impose your ideas on them and let them let it find if it's a true relationship or not. And in the same way when you're relating to people, I think they're going to fall into one of those buckets. And I like the way Dante's idea, because I think there's levels of connection as well. And some people won't be honest.

Some people are scared of honesty. And so you have to find someone who matches your level of honesty. That's part of the relating. So then the question is.

Why.

Like, why do people have different relations to truth? And the biggest, I think, is I think a lot of people are afraid of the truth because their parents met them because their parents made them their parents are teachers. So when I used to work at school and I used to work with difficult kids and the difficult kids pretty much all came from similar families. So there's a few families that all the difficult kids came from.

And.

What had usually happened was early on. They learned never to tell the truth, never to admit to anything or never to care. Like so many things had happened that they just didn't care like you couldn't scare them. You couldn't. There was nothing that had happened that you could do. They didn't already have worse.

So.

Where there's a lack of trust and what that lack of trust is that they're going to be accepted for who they are. There is shame. And there's already shame being imposed by the social, the gap between the social and the pull of the so and the push of the biology. So there's that gap in that gap is shame. What shame does is make people stop talking because they stop talking. If you bring up that topic, they won't want to talk about it. They'll shut it down.

So.

That to a large extent, is going to determine that and the person's response to it because there are some people that have been through that, and we'll override it because they'll have they'll have more of a need. And so they'll override that. But a lot of people that have been through those experiences will learn. But the truth is scary. The truth means they're not good enough. The truth means people will see that they're a bad person. So a lot of people who, when you look at.

People.

Don'T so much say the term now, but it used to be like, what is it confirmed Bachelor. And I know that was a euphemism for often, for a euphemism for someone who was gay because it wasn't safe to be there. But I think also that there is that type of person that will never settle down in the tour of relationship and it's because they aren't willing to reveal they really are.

So.

There are. There is a level of how far you can get into a relationship, how far you can relate to someone. So the level of connection is set by their level of fear. It's set by the level of which they need to control. And so I've often said, when two people meet, their relationship is already set because what it is is those levels, those thresholds of fear, there's less thresholds of control, the reactions that they'll do when things go wrong. All of those things are already set when they meet.

But they just need the experiences of the relationship to play out for both to see them because people put on their best front and they give their best image for the first few months. So you don't have a real idea of who someone is until the context and environments and the circumstances happen that expose what's already in their makeup. And so what happens when people see ten years in? And they say, I don't know who I've married. It's because they looked at the facade but didn't see the makeup of the person.

So.

Does that make sense in relation to I know you made a lot of points, Sandra, and my memory is limited to how many are answered.

Yes. Yes, it makes sense, while at the same time, I think we all have so many layers, and the layers shift around depending on the circumstances. I think certain things come to the floor and others may recede, and it may not be any one factor that actually either cement a relationship or breaks the relationship. Well, my circumstance, if I am being brutally honest, I can see the manifestations of some of those things at the bottom half of your diagram. Yes, I could recognize them playing out. And I think, you know, the sort of wanting to to control.

And it's not so much to control other person per se, but it's the control what they're doing to you. Right. But it plays out has been a form of control because you're circumscribing what they are doing, but it's because it impacts you that you're doing that, and that leads to disharmony and dysfunction, as you're saying, that pulling and pushing that starts that process. So I recognize that, for example. And so, yeah, things that probably were dormant, as you're saying, you brought them into the relationship. They were resetting you in a way.

But these new nuances and new reactions can trigger some of those dormant behaviors, characteristics, things that were simmering. They're not being provoked, but once triggered, they come to the four, like, for example, being angry, just snapping and just losing the flock because something just cause that particular reaction, which is not expected. It's not the norm in terms of your behavior. So yeah, I can see I can see that we move through the various levels and the circumstances that put the lead it to a point where you have to actually see this is make or break for your well being.

I think there comes a point when you have to take control of your sense of self. And this is what's playing out based on your thing, because if you're never, ever going to get to that evolved point and you're sitting forever down in that dysfunctional bit below that line, you do get to a point where you have to say, this is not good for my sense of well being because you're not seeing at that neutral point where you call just sort of modeling along in that kind of neutral space where you don't Corally, don't argue, you don't evolve, you don't change, you just exist and you plot along and, oh, my gosh, that is like the living dead to me.

Right. Whereas the other one is constant tension being below the line. And that to me, you know, nature talks about the state of entropy. One always needs to. There's always change. You are moving to another state. So yeah, you are forced, I think, to do something or it's going to get done to you because the other party may decide that they need to be the one. And I think in my case, I was the party who decided that this has to change. We cannot go on like this because it's like a state of suspended animation.

But it's not fun.

Yeah. I've got laser notes and selling response and some inspired by what you said.

I.

Think to use Nicole's, where we have this idea of superficial and humanist or spiritual and but I think it's important to know that we, like Ken Wilber talks about transcendent include, so that when you go from one level to another, where he talks about the Dominator hierarchies and growth hierarchies. And he also talks about in spiral dynamics, there's different levels of how you relate to the world, which I think is in parallel to that. And.

So.

The growth. Okay. Yeah, that is part of it. But the growth. So Dominator hierarchy is a hierarchy where slaves a different cast systems. And this is where one that's been imposed. And so as we talked about them and differentiates about Dominator hierarchies to growth hierarchies. And so if you look at language, you have letters, words, sentences, paragraphs in nature, you have as like Southern Patomic atoms, cells, tissue organs. So growth growth, growth hierarchies are natural, and they naturally evolve. And it talks about the main green means lots of people like we're in an age of where there's a lot of people in the green part in terms of spiral domains, where they saying that spiritual is better than super visual.

And this is something that we kind of touched on. And I want to make the point that we transcend and include is that many people like the idea of the mean green meme is like you reach a level of spirituality. And I'm more spiritual when you get competitive spirituality.

And.

But however. So I've always thought that there is no distinction between spiritual and life because the concrete has to be powered by an energy and the spiritual the energy, then the concrete is the energy how it manifests. So it's still got a spiritual nature to it. So the superficial with Love Island or Tar or whatever. Still, there is a level of spirituality that's underpinning that driving that. And so there's a thing that we can say we've gone up and now before we are better. But I think what happens is the more the awareness that we have, the higher level is how will we have more access to awareness?

But the Buddha, Jesus, or whoever you want to talk about still has a preference in their food. They still have a preference in what they wear. They still have a preference in their experiences. So they still very involved on a superficial level.

So.

The problem with only having a superficial level is that you have a lack of awareness of what's driving what you do. And so people who connect on a more superficial layer or level have less to connect to, because if you're up, you can still talk about and enjoy food. You still talk about and enjoy food, clothes. And I don't know why I'm always dominated by food, but you can still enjoy sport and prefer a team, and you're just not lost and trapped at that level. So you have an awareness you have what you prefer in your hobbies.

But you also have an awareness of what's driving. That why that's important. And so you can connect at so much deeper level. Whereas if all you are going to talk about is clothes and food and status symbols and money and stuff like that, there comes a time where there's only so much to talk about. So the more level gives you the deeper connection in order to have conversations. We talked about this last, but you need to have ingredients. The more diversity of ingredients that you have, the deeper, the richer the conversations you can have because you can create more blends couples that connect that have a greater level of awareness that have much deeper connection to truth are able to talk about everything, why it occurs.

And so they understand each other at a deeper level where a lot of couples lose connection, fall out of love, grow apart. Whatever you want to call it is because they assume this is what they always do. This is what they always like. I know them, whereas for all of us, well, if we're open and looking for it, we can still find stuff about us that we don't understand, and we don't know how many you ask why, how you understand more about yourself because of those questions, and in the same way, because you're forever recognizing that someone is changing and you don't know them the connection is still fresh.

And the other thing is really that relationships and life ultimately is a solo journey. Other people are there to enrich our experience, and we have relationships that are mutually enriching. But we come into the world alone. We leave the world alone, and every relationship is going to end. Whether it ends in death or divorce or break up.

We.

Can'T have use a relationship to replace us because a relationship is made of two individuals. So the individuals and the health and wellbeing of the individuals is what drives the health and well being of the relationship. So when we make the relationship the thing, we lose connection to ourselves and we lose something in the relationship. Yes. So I don't know how much that relates and how much how much you take from that. I hope that answers at least some of your questions on that points.

I think actually you're expanding the conversation, the bot for quite a bit, but yeah, I do agree. And I think sometimes we have a way of looking at relationships as though it's one thing. It's one homogeneous thing that just sits there and it is stable and it doesn't change. It's a bedrock kind of thing and notion of several layers. You start off with layers. You may not, you know, this feeling of oneness and oh, my God, he's the perfect one, or she's the perfect one. And you think that it's all seamless and yours is such a cohesive whole drives us to this, I suppose, distraction in many ways.

When we start to see the it's like filo pastry solar starting to show through this thing that seems so solid. And sometimes I think that it's not a cause for panic. It's an adjustment. And it's an acknowledgement that you're two individuals. And this is how you are showing those nuances of sales to each other as you evolve within the relationship. And I think it's when one person starts to pass you down back into this mask, this homogeneous mask because you need to be there. You can't put your head out and show your individuality.

Now every layer must be the same as it was from the very beginning. And I think that's where Stripe starts to wear his ugly head and there so what you see in the layers, they take on different types of importance, depending on what stage you're in and also your own state of evolution in terms of how you deal with it and cope with it and also the willingness of the other partner, too, because we keep talking about ourselves. But the partner is not willing to acknowledge, accept, and want to participate in the process of the relationship evolve in no matter what you see, no matter what you want, no matter what you express, it's not going to work.

It's going to be dysfunctional and it's going to be on even, and it's going to create decline. Your thing, the push and pull a one party wants to stay and maintain the state of school and the other one wants to evolve. And you can correct me if I'm wrong, because this is something I'm still I think I'm trying to work out in my head process of evolution because I see this affects me because I keep telling you how independent I want to be and I don't want to be married again.

And I want I want somebody to just be with me when and if I now. And what have you sort of speak, right.

Okay.

Does one. And sometimes I'm kind of conflicted by that, because what does this independence actually mean? Is it independence of spirit or independence of space, physical space or independence of thought? If you know what I mean. I'm trying to where is the what's the important of the independence that I seek to maintain and have, right? Because if it's space, that's one level, that's one thing. But if it's other things, other components, then I could probably be in trouble. Because if I want independence of emotional space and it means that I don't want a true connection with somebody, you know, because I don't want to be too close to I want to be able to run away if it's getting too hard or something like that.

So I'm working that through.

There's a couple of things. First thing really daring me jumped out is when you talked about I can't remember exactly how you put it, but I had in mind, like, when you look at a relationship, I think you should look at a graph of the quality of the relationship and the relationship unfolds. And the typical marital satisfaction goes up initially, and it goes down. Yeah. And it goes down. Relationships break because there's a point of conflict and people don't know how to repair that. And so it just gets worse.

But there's something you said, and I think you should look at a relationship and it's like a heartbeat. It's going to go up and down. And it's the ability to repair when it's going down and reconcile. On your last point.

You mean you need a good dose of medicine at that point?

Yes, it's really reconnect because we talked before about the connection disconnection. It's about recognizing a relationship is a relationship. Health is the quality of the connection of this connection. And then your last point is the idea that you have of what you want is your attempt to bring control to your circumstance. And I think what we really have to do is to let go of our ideas. Then we have a rough idea, everything that we want, you know, there's always something that you want. You want the latest iphone where you want the latest Carl, a bigger house or whatever.

There's always something that you want. Like, everyone here probably has some shopping list. Like someone said, Christmas. What would you want for Christmas? You've got okay. Yeah. I really want that. So there's always something that's the horizon. But we can't what we try and do. And I think what you've talked about here is there a tent to try and wrap up. This is what it's going to be. And I think we can have that as a vague destination. So, like, sometimes people only on holiday and they want to go on holiday to say, Portugal, they want to go to Portugal because there's an experience they want that they think about having Portugal, maybe something that they want to go and see they've had a good time or something like that.

And we attempt to decide in all things, like businesses are like, okay, in the five year plan, we're going to do this. There's an attempt to control control far, really. And so what can happen if you met someone, if you met someone and you got on so well and you initially got together and saying this and you got on so well that you crave him being there and you wanted a more connection. And they said, no, this is what we agreed. So you go, yeah. But yeah.

But now that's changed because, like, each relationship is unique and each person that you meet is going to be create unique feelings in you, in them. And to try and set ground rules is to try and impose what that's going to feel like when you don't know. So I often say that you don't have to change for a great relationship, great relationship will change you, and it's going to change what you want. And so we can only keep one thing. You can chase the relationship that you want, like, in this context.

Or.

I.

Mixed up with different ideas. But you can. You can have the connection that you want or the form of a relationship that you want. And whenever there's a conflict, you always want, the higher one. So that connection is higher than a specific format of a relationship. So you can keep that loose. But you have to drop it when the horror on comes into conflict.

Actually, my list is more about what I don't want, you know, it's like, okay, it's the ones and the ones are based on my experience rather than what I do want, because I'm open to many forms of personalities. Or what have you coming my way? And various permutations of space, distance. And what have you I don't have a list of must have. What I have is a list of no way to say this. No bloody way this happened. You know, it's a short list, Marque, but nonetheless, it's a very strong list.

Which, you know, whether the control strategy, the control strategy is a thing of fear, which is mostly to avoid what's happened before, which is why someone who's had certain relationships will go to someone who's completely the opposite. But like Nicole said in the chair, the growth, like the relationship should like if you're going to have a real deep connection is going to change. And so on. Where you grow is by those rules that rigidity because the conflict is going to come from somewhere, someone's rigid. And what's going to determine if the connection deepens?

Can you explore what created that rigidity? And then when you have the awareness, then you can override that. But we make rules to try and protect ourselves.

I agree with that. 100%. I will not deny that. But at the same time, I question with you, one must be open, but I'm just going to be horrible for a second. Okay, I put myself on this socalled site. Okay? And all of these gentlemen are liking and whatever. Remember I told you all about it before and it's continuing as in the hundreds and all the rest of it and blah, blah, blah. But I'm telling you, they all look like they are functionally fixed and they ain't going to place.

So all of what you're talking about evolving and flexibility. No, no, no, no, no, no. Many of them are armchair and simple steps. I mean, I can tell. Okay, so can I just.

There's a judgment in that.

And an assumption, then, is one techie. I'd love to have a little chanter along the dam with you at chanter along.

What hell is he's going to be? Chanter no longer with me to do whatever.

Come on.

Who doesn't love a good chance?

Yes.

You know, he was never a good Hunter, can you imagine? Hang on.

Is that an urban dictionary?

It's just sort of mumble along and.

Hang on.

Detailed pictures of false teeth falling out and suturing along, mumbling along.

Kind of falling over your feet.

I want it to take boating or something.

Isn'T it? From like a steam boat where it's Chantry mini like you just kind of flood in along.

Just going along and mumbling along and kind of an opportunity.

Oh, and so true to have a dot net.

Soaker party. You're joking. Continue.

Yes.

Sorry.

Sorry, Rob.

Okay, so the thing of judgment and the thing of select the mental shortcuts, we can't not use them, so we will judge people. But it's been aware that sometimes some of those people who are cantering along may some of them. There is more too.

But Rob from you mentioned Chanter, it means that your energy levels are totally different from mine. Okay. I am sorry. You'll see me? Yes, I am mad. I am energetic. I am alive, and I am not going to Hunter. Oh, no. Lane with no body. Come now. Okay. No way after much life. See me. So I need somebody who's got a little bit more energy to, you know. Yeah.

Yeah. This thing that we use, there's a reason that we use, like the judgment and the mental mental shortcuts. What we can get with more awareness, though, is an awareness of what judgments we're using. What our prejudices are. And somewhere there's, like a fine tuning. It's like like a graphic equalizer. And it's the fine tuning that brings us more accurate.

But, you know, the criteria that you're usually asked to fill out, you know, height and so and so and so forth. I have been told more than once by one of these. Please narrow your thing because I'm quite broad minded in terms of, you know, my boundaries. You know, I'm not one of those looking for a six foot five manner. I mean, with my five, five foot three. I mean, come on now know the sort of thing. Yeah. My boundaries are quite wide, so I don't care about religion.

I don't care about your ethnicity. I don't care about all of those things that are wide open. I leave them so it's everybody you can come forward. Okay. But when you're centering into my horizon, that's the point. I need a little bit of a Steamboat kind of thing. Half speed, maybe.

Yeah.

But not on. Sorry.

The problem is the dicing you set up for people that want checklist. And so that's why you can narrow through the things that most people are looking for. But it's also the reason why people get frustrated because, like the paradigm, the model that they're working from is flowed. And so it caters to what people want. But this is the point I'm trying to get out here. What people want is not what they really want is in the same way that what people wanted was an iphone. But nobody would have said, yeah, I want an iphone.

And I think the iphone is the perfect metaphor for a relationship, because what you really want is not something that you would be able to write up on a list. But how do we get to refining that is, I think something like a bigger topic that will continue to work long as we go.

Remember, you had a thing where we're talking about conversation, but also how you present yourself in a profile and what you do. And I do pay a lot of attention to that. Versus not so much apart from the usual stuff about not people looking on kimono things like that. So I do give a lot of leeway, but what you say or don't say can say a lot, you know. And that is where I think I put more emphasis on rather than, you know.

Yeah.

And so.

Really you get the data from someone in their messages, and it's about that's a quick filtering mechanism mechanism is really just about filtering.

And that's where the countering came from. You, Steve. I saw that in the thing, and he kept on talking about his thundering.

And I just couldn't get over it because there was important the mentioned more than once telling me about countering down the Lane and countering whatever.

And I'm a little.

Chunk.

Come on. God. So, you know, tell what I mean. Where would I go to change and come on.

He should have that in his profile. Profile name. It would help if his first name was C. Cantering Charles. Okay, well, I think that next step and how we get to refining is one to look at in the future.

Okay.

Well, thank you, everyone, for sharing, for your insights and see you next week.