What Gen Z Want From Life And Work with Sandy De Jesus

Sandy: 00:00:00

My name is Sandy De Jesus.

Sandy: 00:00:01

I am a social media marketer of like genius.

Sandy: 00:00:05

I'm obsessed with this kind of stuff.

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I study it constantly.

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Been doing it since I was 12 and I just have a lot of fun with it.

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I think it involves a lot of communication and leadership, which I love.

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Because of that, I've been able to pay my bills with it.

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I do a lot of videography, content creation, page management and just fun.

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campaign marketing consulting for brands, businesses and entrepreneurs.

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And I've been doing that now professionally for about eight years.

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I live in New York City.

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I love comedy and I'm very excited about the future of work.

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And I'm excited to leave my mark on it.

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Sounds

Rob: 00:00:38

great.

Rob: 00:00:39

So how did you get started?

Sandy: 00:00:41

So how I got started goes back a little bit.

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Very early on knew that I was one of those creative like ADHD kids.

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I didn't know this back then, but I know that.

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Categorize it as now, and I only say that because I noticed a lot of

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the people that use that terminology now had similar upbringings.

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I was taking apart toys.

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I didn't want to stand still.

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And I've also learned that's something that comes to do with just

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being a guy that just like to be physical and learn in different ways.

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And I grew up in the Dominican Republic, so I was always outside, always

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playing, always learning with my hands.

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Moving to New York City in 2003, school and the corporate production and work

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lifestyle did not come familiar to me.

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I didn't like sitting at my desk.

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I didn't like doing homework.

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None of that, like I, it was very frustrating to me always that I had to do

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schoolwork and then I had to do homework.

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It was very frustrating for me.

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So because of that, and because of all my skill sets and natural

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abilities, I was a very social person.

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I loved making people laugh and that.

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was true always.

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Ever since I was in school and I started schooling here in New York City in

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kindergarten, I was always wanting to talk to people instead of do work.

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And luckily that stumbled into a strength because Around 12 years old

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I was playing a lot of video games, and when you're playing video games,

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at least now, it's very obvious that you will Google something.

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You will search up a YouTube video to try to learn how to play the

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game, how to get ahead, all the secrets, the best strategies.

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And I was seeing how much these influencers were making.

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They were buying new homes, home tours, all these different things.

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And, long story.

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I was a very good test taker.

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I got into good classrooms, good opportunities school wise, but all

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of my teachers just kept telling me I had potential and that I was lazy.

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But when that college conversation came around, I was like, Hey, how do I do this?

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How do I become a successful person?

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And it was really, how do you make as much money as possible?

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I googled it.

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Cardiologists were making 500, 000 a year and I was like, okay, cool.

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I'm going to be a doctor.

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I've watched enough Grey's Anatomy episodes.

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I was like, I can do this.

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But that required another eight years of schooling and I didn't

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feel comfortable with that.

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So I got into content creation because I was, I enjoyed making people laugh

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and I had been watching so many YouTubers from all my gaming research.

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And then by the time I got into the professional path, I just noticed

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that they were making a lot of money.

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So I pursued that path, but I got into it just because I liked comedy.

Rob: 00:03:17

So who were your earliest comedy influences?

Sandy: 00:03:20

So number one for sure was Kevin Hart.

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He, back when I was in that middle school era was getting

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very big on Comedy Central.

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And I was learning from him.

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He had an audio book too, that I consumed out of high school

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as well, or during high school.

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And he was speaking about how his success.

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truly took off for him and selling out shows on Facebook.

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So again, I went down this natural pathway of learning that social

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media and that the entertainment space was feasible and possible.

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It's great making videos on my laptop, just trying to get the hang of it.

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But I realized now there was no magic that was like, wow, like I'm so talented

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and let me start making videos young.

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It was really just the courage.

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It was just the courage to get on camera.

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And to speak in front of an audience, which again, I had been doing in my

Sandy: 00:04:14

classrooms were full of 20 to 30 kids.

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And I was speaking up constantly every single day trying to make people laugh.

Rob: 00:04:21

I'm guessing you were the class clown.

Sandy: 00:04:23

Ah yeah, I definitely aim to be.

Rob: 00:04:25

So 12 is is maybe the age where You're quite comfortable speaking out

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and then there's a like the teenage years where people seem to shrink

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back somewhere from about 13 14 to early to mid 20s Did you experience

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anything like that or were you always quite comfortable in the spotlight?

Sandy: 00:04:45

I definitely retreated after I started making videos.

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I was about sixth grade 2009 to 2010.

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Right around that time my parents got a divorce and that for me was very

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reality shattering because you have this perspective of the world of, anything

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I put my mind to, I can accomplish.

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The world is beautiful, I'm gonna do great things, people are so

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great, we have to work hard, like, all these different things, too.

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Why are my parents getting a divorce?

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And so there was a lot of internal navigation that

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pulled me away from people.

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Right around that time, I, yeah, of course I loved being entertaining in

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front of people, but it was just, cause.

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out of boredom.

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I didn't know what else to do.

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I was being forced to be in the classrooms.

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But I did spend a lot of time playing video games, spending a lot

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of time learning the online space.

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There was a natural retreat, but there was also a internal navigation.

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So I retreated from the outside world and I went inward, if that makes

Rob: 00:05:51

I like the way that you worded that because I think that encapsulates

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what teenagers do being a bit older and having seen my daughters

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go through that kind of stage.

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There's that outgoing time when kids are young and then they go in their

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shell and then it takes them to their twenties before they come out.

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And when you look at statistics research of who are the

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loneliest people, it's teenagers.

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And I wonder if there's something in that in retreating into themselves.

Rob: 00:06:17

Okay.

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And then you came to the college age.

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And what happened there?

Sandy: 00:06:22

Yeah, so around my college age right around senior year of

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high school, I was already working.

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My sister had been working at a restaurant, and she got me a job.

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And even there, I got more reassurance that, at least for me, from my

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point of view, that School was not the path that I wanted to go down.

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I started doing 50 hour weeks at a restaurant job.

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As soon as I got out of school, I would go to work.

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There were, towards the end of my senior year, I completely

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just stopped going to school.

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And I only went to the classes that I needed to graduate, and that's

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another side story, but they were giving me eight classes as a senior,

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when I only needed one art credit.

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So they were trying to keep me in school for no reason as if I didn't

Sandy: 00:07:05

have an entire, world to conquer, like at that age, which is why I think, we

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have this internal navigation around that age is you come into this space,

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you collect enough data outside, and then you're like, wait a second, I

Sandy: 00:07:18

need to do internal work as well.

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Who am I?

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What do I like?

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What do I want to do?

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Why is working hard so hard?

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Why can't I just do it?

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So there's a lot of internal navigation that, that happens, but through that I

Sandy: 00:07:31

learned that, people do value hard work.

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Around the middle school time when I was going through my depression I

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thought that hard work didn't pay off.

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I thought that people would just say things like that just

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to trick you into playing nice.

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But truth be told, the life was really hard and ugly.

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But around that time I started working a lot had enough money to invest in,

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in things that I wanted to invest in.

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I built my own PC.

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And around that time I leaned into the freedom that I've always wanted.

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So around that time there was no telling me that I was wrong.

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And then right after graduating high school, I quite literally paired up

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with a guy that I just met on Twitter and started traveling the world six

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months after graduating high school.

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So there was a level of independence that was developed around that time that

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allowed me to continue to be even more courageous, because you do have to make

Sandy: 00:08:26

a decision around that time of, who are you have to stand on your own two feet,

Rob: 00:08:30

I can definitely empathize.

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My whole time school and college was a rebellion because I felt why am I here?

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I could do this quicker.

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I could do this in four or five years.

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Why are you making me do it for 12?

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Why do you say that I have to sit here at your pace learning

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what you want me to learn?

Sandy: 00:08:49

Yeah, 100%.

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I think depending on, where you're, what you're experiencing, I think it's a

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fight or flight moment, where, you decide whether or not you are going to surrender

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to the world and your fears, or if you're going to surrender to your courage.

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Because at that point, you have to decide whether you're

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going to die on your own sword.

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And it is a very important time, but I think it is developed around that time

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where you're like, wait a second, no, I'm going to decide what happens, right?

Sandy: 00:09:23

Because even around that time too, and I'm curious to hear what you went through

Sandy: 00:09:28

around that time, but I was experiencing and learning a lot about death because I

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was having, deaths happened in my family.

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Around that time it wasn't just what college do I want to go to?

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It was how do I want to die?

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Who do I want to be before I die?

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It starts now.

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I have a lot of work to do.

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The people in my family, the grown ups in my family, I've already

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superseded them in terms of really understanding what the world is like.

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I've seen, you spend so much time in those years thinking about the future.

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Putting it all together in your head.

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So it is a very big decision that you make around that time where you're like, wait

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a second, who am I going to choose to be?

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But then you realize that it's a decision you have to

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continuously make every single day.

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And that's why I honor and respect leadership so much.

Sandy: 00:10:18

But yeah conviction, trust, faith courage, there's so many different words to put

Sandy: 00:10:23

on it, but it's very interesting that your environment is such a big part of

Sandy: 00:10:28

that conversation, but so is your spirit.

Sandy: 00:10:30

So is who in yourself and that little voice that speaks up

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when the whole world is so loud.

Rob: 00:10:36

But of course, first you have to hear the little voice, and I think

Rob: 00:10:40

there's so much noise outside in terms of school and parents and people and peers

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telling you what, who you should be and what you should do that it's not always

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easy to listen to that person inside.

Sandy: 00:10:54

People have their best interests for you.

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But I think that's the challenge.

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I think people need to remove their agenda off of other people and

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allow you to make your own mistakes.

Sandy: 00:11:07

There is so much pressure on that time from people on how to do things how not

Sandy: 00:11:11

to make mistakes, But, if there's one thing I've learned in my later years

Sandy: 00:11:16

is to surrender to nature and surrender to the true reality that we are all

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experiencing, and it's that we're all learning things in different ways.

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We're all here to research.

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A different mechanic of the universe.

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And I believe that my mechanic that I'm researching and that

Sandy: 00:11:36

I'm obsessed with his growth.

Sandy: 00:11:38

I love growth, but to be obsessed with such a such a

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curriculum at such an early age.

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It's quite triggering for people because Everybody wants to feel like

Sandy: 00:11:49

they're right and they're guiding you towards a more fulfilling place in life.

Sandy: 00:11:54

But they're only measuring you against themselves and that's dangerous.

Rob: 00:11:59

You said you felt like you'd reached a stage where you'd

Rob: 00:12:03

surpassed the elders in your family.

Rob: 00:12:05

In, so you felt like that you were the one that needed to come up with the answers.

Sandy: 00:12:11

I saw interview the other day with Shia LaBeouf.

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He's a very big actor here in America.

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He's done a big ton of big movies.

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But he put it very nicely where you realize as a kid, you're

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so closely connected to source.

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That if you don't see what you want to see in your reality,

Sandy: 00:12:28

you have to become a creator.

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So I became a creator, but I realized early on that I was

Sandy: 00:12:34

choosing the creator role, whereas people in my family were not.

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So what they were trying to teach me was not useful because I was

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trying to create, whereas they were trying to assimilate and adjust.

Sandy: 00:12:47

So yeah, I realized, a lot of our family, we come from poor

Sandy: 00:12:51

neighborhoods in the Dominican Republic.

Sandy: 00:12:52

We came to America just trying to survive.

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Just trying to get by.

Sandy: 00:12:57

And that's not what I was subscribing to.

Sandy: 00:13:00

So I respected a lot of the information that my family was giving me, but I knew

Sandy: 00:13:04

that it was coming from a place of fear.

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And I know that I'm going to die one day.

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And if I'm going to die one day, I don't want to be making

Sandy: 00:13:12

my decisions based off of fear.

Sandy: 00:13:13

Of course, I want to be responsible but not from a place of fear.

Rob: 00:13:18

This is something that's really interesting now is something I'm thinking

Rob: 00:13:21

about a lot is generational differences.

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So I think there's always a tension.

Rob: 00:13:27

So I'm a generation ahead of you.

Rob: 00:13:29

And so I look at my daughters and I look and I think, how can I see

Rob: 00:13:34

them going through the same things.

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And you think, how can you pass on.

Rob: 00:13:38

You can see when you lived enough time, you've seen enough cycles that you start

Rob: 00:13:42

to see people making the same mistakes.

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But there's a view from a younger side that, I, I know, yeah, dad

Rob: 00:13:50

but things are different now and all of this kind of thing.

Rob: 00:13:52

And you think about.

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In sharing knowledge not just with my children, but generally,

Rob: 00:13:58

how do you save people?

Rob: 00:14:00

There's something about humans that we seem to need to go through the pain

Rob: 00:14:03

of experience before we often learn.

Rob: 00:14:06

So each generation, there's a natural tension that I'm not sure if you've

Rob: 00:14:12

ever heard come across spiral dynamics.

Rob: 00:14:14

Or Ken Wilber's stuff of so it's they talk about it in different colors, as

Rob: 00:14:18

in society goes through spirals and so there's very conservative and very

Rob: 00:14:23

concerned with society, which then leads to a generation, which is very focused

Rob: 00:14:28

on the individual and freedom, which then comes around to a society, which

Rob: 00:14:32

then And in different ways, and they detail different levels of evolution.

Rob: 00:14:37

Something that is also talked about a lot is, Millennials in the workplace.

Rob: 00:14:41

Gen Z is the new one, isn't it?

Sandy: 00:14:43

Here we are.

Sandy: 00:14:44

Yeah.

Rob: 00:14:44

And so there's a, seems to be very different perspectives.

Rob: 00:14:49

And I don't know if you've ever come across Morgan Household's Psychology of

Sandy: 00:14:52

Money.

Sandy: 00:14:53

No, I'm going to need a list of book recommendations from you,

Rob: 00:14:56

Just to give you an overview is what I really like is he talks about

Rob: 00:15:00

money, but about the psychology and he says that our outlook on money is more

Rob: 00:15:07

determined by the experiences we've had.

Rob: 00:15:10

So example, baby boomers, they came through the war, the generation before

Rob: 00:15:14

came through the Great Depression of the twenties, the thirties.

Rob: 00:15:17

So I grew up in the seventies, eighties.

Rob: 00:15:21

So the seventies was a time of great turmoil, chaos, the eighties

Rob: 00:15:25

were a time of great materialism.

Rob: 00:15:28

It was like the first yuppies, and so the experiences that each

Rob: 00:15:32

generation have gone through.

Rob: 00:15:34

Are what determine their attitudes towards money.

Rob: 00:15:37

Baby boomers have like never had it so good that whole generation

Rob: 00:15:41

that for the first time there was money, there was a wealth of

Rob: 00:15:44

money, it was easy to make money, property was cheap, things like that.

Rob: 00:15:48

Then after that, there's, there's different generations which

Rob: 00:15:52

have different experiences.

Rob: 00:15:54

So I'm wondering like what was going on when you were growing up socially?

Rob: 00:15:59

And how that might have impacted your views on work life.

Rob: 00:16:05

that's a great question.

Rob: 00:16:06

So for example, you were the first generation really that had YouTube

Rob: 00:16:10

Facebook, all of these things.

Rob: 00:16:12

So it's a, yeah.

Rob: 00:16:13

It's a great change from any other generation probably.

Sandy: 00:16:16

Yeah.

Sandy: 00:16:16

No I saw all these programs come up.

Sandy: 00:16:19

I was on YouTube when it first launched.

Sandy: 00:16:21

I was on Facebook when it first launched.

Sandy: 00:16:23

I was on MySpace.

Sandy: 00:16:24

I was.

Sandy: 00:16:25

Listening to the websites that my uncles and aunts were dating on, Hi Fi was one.

Sandy: 00:16:30

What I think, and this is again why I think it's a spiritual thing, because

Sandy: 00:16:34

I think Gen Z ers can sense this, they just don't know how to verbalize it.

Sandy: 00:16:38

I think that we as humans try our best, I think it's really beautiful

Sandy: 00:16:43

what I've seen my entire life with humans, and we can all, regardless of

Sandy: 00:16:48

our generation, share The understanding that we didn't, the human experiences.

Sandy: 00:16:54

We didn't choose to be here.

Sandy: 00:16:56

We were assigned a family were born and things change.

Sandy: 00:17:00

And even though that's sad and scary, we try to hold on to the things that

Sandy: 00:17:04

we think could at least make tomorrow a little bit better and a little bit better

Sandy: 00:17:08

because we try to keep alive what we see change and die with our older loved ones.

Sandy: 00:17:15

And so I understand that.

Sandy: 00:17:16

And I know that Gen Zers understand that as well.

Sandy: 00:17:19

But I think that the older generations, at least from what I've seen growing

Sandy: 00:17:23

up they're a little bit more afraid and I think that happens with time

Sandy: 00:17:28

because as you assimilate and grow with this universe and this life,

Sandy: 00:17:34

essentially, the more you have to lose.

Sandy: 00:17:36

And I think that what I saw very specifically was that even though my

Sandy: 00:17:41

family members were working really hard and they were coming home late,

Sandy: 00:17:45

my dad was coming home late, my mom was coming home late, they were all

Sandy: 00:17:49

sacrificing a lot, but they weren't happy.

Sandy: 00:17:52

We left this country in the Dominican Republic to come to the

Sandy: 00:17:55

United States for a better life.

Sandy: 00:17:57

We were making more money, but everything costs more.

Sandy: 00:18:00

We were making more money, but the parents didn't have time to raise

Sandy: 00:18:03

me because they needed to work more.

Sandy: 00:18:05

We had a better place to live and a better looking bathroom, but they were all empty.

Sandy: 00:18:12

There was no time and attention.

Sandy: 00:18:14

I think back to what you were saying earlier.

Sandy: 00:18:16

I think it's very beautiful that older generations try to

Sandy: 00:18:19

pass on knowledge and wisdom.

Sandy: 00:18:20

But we all have to remember that when we were all putting ourselves

Sandy: 00:18:24

together so that we could survive death, essentially, right?

Sandy: 00:18:27

You're putting yourself together when you're in 12, all

Sandy: 00:18:31

the way up to college years.

Sandy: 00:18:32

You're putting yourself together.

Sandy: 00:18:33

You're trying to survive.

Sandy: 00:18:34

You don't want people to hurt you.

Sandy: 00:18:36

You're trying to be strong.

Sandy: 00:18:37

You're trying to be attractive.

Sandy: 00:18:38

You're putting yourself together.

Sandy: 00:18:39

Everyone's giving you I learned in business that it's free consulting.

Sandy: 00:18:44

Everybody has free consulting.

Sandy: 00:18:45

Everybody wants to give you free consulting, but the information that you

Sandy: 00:18:48

truly want is information you pay for.

Sandy: 00:18:51

What I would have loved for my mother and my father is for them to, instead

Sandy: 00:18:55

of just everyone else telling me what to do is to take me to the river.

Sandy: 00:19:00

In, in Alan Watts, The Wisdom of Insecurity, they speak about how

Sandy: 00:19:03

humans, we appreciate the river and we love the river, but we try to hold on

Sandy: 00:19:09

to the river and put it in a bucket.

Sandy: 00:19:10

But once you put the river in the bucket, it's no longer a river.

Sandy: 00:19:13

And so what I would have loved for my parents is to be walked to these lessons.

Sandy: 00:19:19

Don't tell me what to do.

Sandy: 00:19:20

And don't tell me what the answer is.

Sandy: 00:19:22

I want you to understand that I'm using the same technology that you used.

Sandy: 00:19:27

To learn your lesson.

Sandy: 00:19:28

I'm using it too.

Sandy: 00:19:29

So don't just give me the information.

Sandy: 00:19:31

Take me there.

Sandy: 00:19:32

I've learned a lot of wisdom from cold showers, exercising, discipline,

Sandy: 00:19:39

these are the natural things of life that I think truly teach lessons.

Sandy: 00:19:44

And these are the natural things of life that take that wisdom and

Sandy: 00:19:48

really integrate it into yourselves.

Sandy: 00:19:49

So that way when things get hard, you can actually make the right call.

Sandy: 00:19:54

And there's just all these different things that I analyze, but what

Sandy: 00:19:57

I truly come to under to feel in my body is that there's this fear

Sandy: 00:20:02

going on and it all comes from love from these older generations.

Sandy: 00:20:06

What is it?

Sandy: 00:20:06

They're trying to protect us.

Sandy: 00:20:08

They're trying to guide us towards the right path.

Sandy: 00:20:11

Again, I think that's just Taking a bucket of water and trying to call it a river.

Sandy: 00:20:16

I understand that the world is scary, but if and this is a conversation I

Sandy: 00:20:20

wish I could have with my parents.

Sandy: 00:20:21

My parents speak Spanish.

Sandy: 00:20:22

So it's a little bit harder to, to communicate these things and

Sandy: 00:20:25

they just they haven't done the emotional intelligence work to

Sandy: 00:20:28

really, understand these ideas, I just wish that they understood that.

Sandy: 00:20:33

They knew that life was full of change, and that they were gonna

Sandy: 00:20:38

die, and that I was going to die.

Sandy: 00:20:39

So if you know that life is scary, and that this is what you've

Sandy: 00:20:42

essentially signed me up for, then when it comes to passing on wisdom,

Sandy: 00:20:47

let's take those same truths.

Sandy: 00:20:50

Into the conversation, right?

Sandy: 00:20:52

Don't just give me the information.

Sandy: 00:20:54

Take me to the river.

Sandy: 00:20:56

Take me to the forest.

Sandy: 00:20:58

Talk to me about death.

Sandy: 00:20:59

Talk to me about, these deep things.

Sandy: 00:21:02

Don't just give me the cherry on top.

Sandy: 00:21:04

Give me the entire Sunday.

Sandy: 00:21:06

I want the entire ice cream because that's what matters to

Sandy: 00:21:08

me because I'm going to die too.

Sandy: 00:21:11

I've seen a lot of my life where it's a lot of, Oh, trust me.

Sandy: 00:21:14

You don't want to know.

Sandy: 00:21:15

I'm going to, I went through so much and I'm trying to protect you.

Sandy: 00:21:18

But it's okay, so you're going to keep things hidden from me, and I think

Sandy: 00:21:22

that there is a, that's obviously the conversation right now is from the older

Sandy: 00:21:26

generations to these new generations that there's just this misunderstanding, but I

Sandy: 00:21:31

think it's just that people really need to understand that Gen Zers, we see it from

Sandy: 00:21:37

the same perspective you do, we were just born a little bit further down the line.

Sandy: 00:21:42

And our reality 2024 is asking us to be courageous.

Sandy: 00:21:47

The economy is asking us to be courageous.

Sandy: 00:21:50

Our spirits are asking us to be courageous.

Sandy: 00:21:53

We don't just want to work for work sake.

Sandy: 00:21:55

We want meaning.

Sandy: 00:21:56

We want to die with purpose.

Sandy: 00:21:58

And I think that's something we're not willing to sacrifice.

Sandy: 00:22:00

And I think that if the older generations want to truly connect with us, they

Sandy: 00:22:04

need to accept this bitter pill of we're going to die, stop spending

Sandy: 00:22:08

so much time at work, take me to the river, quite literally I would

Sandy: 00:22:12

recommend that to older generations.

Sandy: 00:22:13

If you're trying to connect with your your kids, how do you connect with yourself?

Sandy: 00:22:18

I'm sure you connect with yourself the same ways they

Sandy: 00:22:22

need to connect with themselves.

Sandy: 00:22:23

Do that together.

Sandy: 00:22:25

Go on a hike.

Sandy: 00:22:25

Do something challenging together.

Sandy: 00:22:27

Do a cold plunge together.

Sandy: 00:22:28

That's the kind of stuff that I feel like really connects people.

Sandy: 00:22:32

I've learned a lot this year and last year about what it means to be a

Sandy: 00:22:35

man and what is it rites of passage.

Sandy: 00:22:37

I think the beautiful perspectives that all these generations have.

Sandy: 00:22:42

Is coming to a place of we need to find mutual understanding.

Sandy: 00:22:47

And the only mutual understanding we can find is.

Sandy: 00:22:50

What we all used to be here in the first place, which is nature.

Sandy: 00:22:53

And you know what God is, and you can I only say that word because I feel

Sandy: 00:22:57

like people understand the concept of God, but there's this, an intelligence

Sandy: 00:23:02

here that we were born to that is trying to talk to us and teach us.

Sandy: 00:23:05

And I think that for me at least the disconnect is that when.

Sandy: 00:23:09

Older generations ignore that and they don't and they

Sandy: 00:23:12

don't want to speak about it.

Sandy: 00:23:14

And I think that it would make a big difference.

Sandy: 00:23:15

And it would be a much more productive conversation.

Sandy: 00:23:18

What do you think, Rob?

Rob: 00:23:19

Okay.

Rob: 00:23:19

That's fascinating.

Rob: 00:23:20

I'm trying to piece it together.

Rob: 00:23:22

Okay.

Rob: 00:23:23

So when you say older generations, there's so much fear by that.

Rob: 00:23:28

You mean there's there's kind of structures and people

Rob: 00:23:32

want security people want.

Rob: 00:23:34

So when I was growing up, it was where people were used to a job

Rob: 00:23:38

for life that used to be before the generation before mine.

Rob: 00:23:42

It was like my dad worked for Kodak for 45 years and people would go

Rob: 00:23:46

into a job and they'd stay there.

Rob: 00:23:48

And that's what they wanted.

Rob: 00:23:50

It was my generation that dealt with first where there wasn't a job for

Rob: 00:23:54

life and it was usual to change around.

Rob: 00:23:57

But we've had, so I, is that what you mean by the, by fear?

Rob: 00:24:00

As in people are afraid of consequences, people are afraid of losing jobs, people

Rob: 00:24:05

are afraid of things not working out.

Rob: 00:24:07

I think

Sandy: 00:24:07

It's just, it was a, for me it was a big sense of

Sandy: 00:24:09

fear of letting go and change.

Sandy: 00:24:11

There was fear of trying new things, fear of learning, fear

Sandy: 00:24:14

of growing fear of adjusting.

Sandy: 00:24:16

Because if you are going to bring me into this world and I have to adjust

Sandy: 00:24:21

and you're trying to find mutual understanding with me, then you

Sandy: 00:24:24

have to learn how to adjust with me.

Sandy: 00:24:26

Or what you're asking me to do is to leave you behind,

Sandy: 00:24:28

which can be quite conflicting.

Rob: 00:24:31

So what you mean is basically work has to adjust for Gen Z.

Sandy: 00:24:36

I think work is already adjusting for Millennials.

Sandy: 00:24:39

I think Millennials are starting to already find a common ground

Sandy: 00:24:42

between purpose and fulfillment.

Sandy: 00:24:44

I don't think work has to change for Gen Z.

Sandy: 00:24:47

I think that teaching and parenting, And that kind of stuff has to change.

Sandy: 00:24:53

I think more, I'm more speaking to here to, relationship between

Sandy: 00:24:58

family members and parents.

Sandy: 00:25:00

But it does have to be part of the conversation because when you're

Sandy: 00:25:02

trying to make that family, that family bond with the Gen Z er.

Sandy: 00:25:06

The Gen Zers got their eyeballs on survival and in buying groceries,

Sandy: 00:25:12

and I think the concern that older generations have speaking to Gen Zers

Sandy: 00:25:16

is that it comes from the same angle, but it comes back to we're just

Sandy: 00:25:21

trying to love each other and we're trying to have this family perspective.

Sandy: 00:25:23

So I'm not speaking here to the work environment, even though it's

Sandy: 00:25:27

a subcategory of this conversation.

Sandy: 00:25:29

I'm more speaking to the parenting and the family aspect because, we started

Sandy: 00:25:34

this conversation of what did I see in the family while I was growing up

Sandy: 00:25:37

that, made my point of view and why I felt it was, I had superseded the

Rob: 00:25:42

perspectives.

Rob: 00:25:43

Okay.

Rob: 00:25:44

Something else I wanted to ask you about is you said you saw yourself as

Rob: 00:25:48

a creator rather than an assimilator.

Rob: 00:25:50

And I'm not sure I understand the difference.

Sandy: 00:25:53

Yeah I learned about the first time I learned about assimilation

Sandy: 00:25:56

was the 11th grade that word.

Sandy: 00:25:58

And what I mean by the by those two words is, I could have

Sandy: 00:26:01

assimilated, I could have, taken my attributes, my characteristics.

Sandy: 00:26:06

And said, you know what, Sandy, that's just your hobby, which

Sandy: 00:26:09

was a lot of the words that I was hearing when I was growing up.

Sandy: 00:26:11

That's just your hobby, Sandy, keep that as a hobby.

Sandy: 00:26:14

What are you going to do as your career?

Sandy: 00:26:16

And I didn't want to assimilate.

Sandy: 00:26:19

I didn't want to pick a job just for work's sake.

Sandy: 00:26:22

I didn't want to go to college just for the sake of going to college.

Sandy: 00:26:27

I didn't want to get A's just because everybody was telling me to.

Sandy: 00:26:30

For me, it was one of the other words that I learned after

Sandy: 00:26:32

graduating was fulfillment.

Sandy: 00:26:33

I cared a lot about fulfillment.

Sandy: 00:26:35

And so I became a creator.

Sandy: 00:26:37

I spent a lot of years in the freelance stage and as a creator,

Sandy: 00:26:41

you make opportunities, you make create, you find opportunities.

Sandy: 00:26:46

So where, my family wanted me to assimilate and have, the traditional

Sandy: 00:26:51

American dream like route.

Sandy: 00:26:53

I wanted to be a creator.

Sandy: 00:26:55

I said, I don't want to just work because, the story at the restaurant

Sandy: 00:26:59

job was I was getting great results.

Sandy: 00:27:01

I became a shift manager at 17 and I was in charge of older people.

Sandy: 00:27:06

I was increasing the revenue at the store when I was on the day that I

Sandy: 00:27:10

was in charge, which was Saturdays.

Sandy: 00:27:12

And when I asked for a promotion to become a general manager, which I

Sandy: 00:27:15

thought would have been really cool.

Sandy: 00:27:16

17 year old becomes general manager in New York City restaurant.

Sandy: 00:27:19

It would have brought a lot of publicity towards the store and the entire brand.

Sandy: 00:27:23

They told me I was too young.

Sandy: 00:27:25

So I never wanted to assimilate to that to a world where people told me what

Sandy: 00:27:30

was possible and what wasn't possible.

Sandy: 00:27:33

And so instead I became a creator.

Sandy: 00:27:34

Making people laugh.

Sandy: 00:27:35

I was connector.

Sandy: 00:27:36

I love adventures.

Sandy: 00:27:38

And I made a career where that was possible.

Sandy: 00:27:41

And because of that, I think I made the world a better place.

Sandy: 00:27:43

I think that it's, bad for the world when you know, you commit to a career

Sandy: 00:27:49

that you're not truly passionate about.

Sandy: 00:27:51

Because I think that Every conversation needs that extra love in order for

Sandy: 00:27:58

it to be a sustainable business, and in order for the business to

Sandy: 00:28:02

be better for the world overall.

Sandy: 00:28:04

I've seen this in one of the companies that we worked for all of last year.

Sandy: 00:28:08

They are the third largest coffee franchise in America.

Sandy: 00:28:12

And they do coffee, but you couldn't tell.

Sandy: 00:28:15

You go to these conferences and it feels like they're building rockets,

Sandy: 00:28:18

how much attention to detail they have and how much they love every

Sandy: 00:28:22

system and protocol of their job.

Sandy: 00:28:26

And so if you're not fully passionate about your job, I think

Sandy: 00:28:29

it creates a lot of room for error.

Sandy: 00:28:31

And then the consequences are just, they just stack up over year and year.

Sandy: 00:28:36

So for me, I wanted to be a creator.

Sandy: 00:28:37

I wanted a position that I was fully passionate about so I could

Sandy: 00:28:40

make the world a better place.

Sandy: 00:28:41

I didn't want to just assimilate just for the sake of survival.

Sandy: 00:28:45

Again, I think it came from a very fear based mentality that my family

Sandy: 00:28:48

had because we were immigrants.

Rob: 00:28:50

So I think I get it now.

Rob: 00:28:51

I think you mean by assimilate, you mean you fit into this existing structure.

Rob: 00:28:55

You wanted to create a new structure.

Sandy: 00:28:57

Yes, it's like staying inside the box versus creating outside the box.

Sandy: 00:29:00

Okay.

Rob: 00:29:01

This is fascinating to be able to understand.

Rob: 00:29:04

So we've got two sides of the generation.

Rob: 00:29:06

Something else I'd like to ask you about is I don't know if

Rob: 00:29:09

you've seen Simon Sinek, when he had a rant about millennials in

Rob: 00:29:12

the workplace and the Upbringing

Sandy: 00:29:14

and what we've done work with Simon Sinek, which is ironic, right?

Sandy: 00:29:19

When I was getting started around freelancing, I was able

Sandy: 00:29:22

to do an interview with him.

Sandy: 00:29:24

And I think around that time it was when that talk was

Sandy: 00:29:26

going viral and I watched it.

Sandy: 00:29:28

I think I remember watching it, but I do not remember it.

Sandy: 00:29:30

It was a, it's a, it's an old interview, I'm assuming.

Rob: 00:29:32

I think so.

Rob: 00:29:32

I think it was the, it seems to be the one where he went viral and launched

Sandy: 00:29:38

him.

Sandy: 00:29:38

Yeah.

Sandy: 00:29:39

Around 2018, 2019.

Sandy: 00:29:40

Yeah.

Sandy: 00:29:40

I think I know which one you're talking about, but if you could remind me, that'd

Rob: 00:29:42

be great.

Rob: 00:29:43

Yeah.

Rob: 00:29:43

So basically I'm going from memory that he said.

Rob: 00:29:47

Like our generation so he said, what he sees as millennials going into work and

Rob: 00:29:52

they're like, I want to make an impact.

Rob: 00:29:54

And then two weeks later they're going I'm going to leave because

Rob: 00:29:56

I'm not making an impact.

Rob: 00:29:57

And he said you haven't been there long enough.

Rob: 00:29:59

And he said it's basically, that our generation.

Rob: 00:30:03

Didn't want to make failure or as you've said, there was a fear around, I think

Rob: 00:30:08

a lot of parents had fear and it was like you gave eighth place trophies no

Rob: 00:30:13

one ever fails, everyone's told that they're special so like older generation

Rob: 00:30:18

has been brought up quite harshly and it's do this, do that, sit there and be

Rob: 00:30:22

quiet be seen and not heard, and then, We went the other way and, you're special.

Rob: 00:30:27

So he's talking about that.

Rob: 00:30:28

He's talking about, dating apps, like you say, social media, that everything is

Rob: 00:30:33

you swipe left and you can hook up, but actually real relationships take time.

Rob: 00:30:38

So it's the allure and the promise of social media as opposed to

Rob: 00:30:45

the fulfillment that really comes through time and energy and effort.

Rob: 00:30:49

. Sandy: Yeah, 100%.

Rob: 00:30:50

So in, now take that for instance, right?

Rob: 00:30:52

So if we're trying to communicate that knowledge to

Rob: 00:30:55

Gen Zers, we don't just say it.

Rob: 00:30:58

I do a lot of coaching now, and this is an exercise I love to do, especially

Rob: 00:31:02

around dating with my clients, is I'll hop on FaceTime with them, and they'll

Rob: 00:31:08

go to a busy corner in their city or town or whatever, and they'll, anytime

Rob: 00:31:13

they see somebody that they think is attractive, they'll let me know, and

Rob: 00:31:17

I tell them, go and talk to them.

Rob: 00:31:19

Go and talk to them.

Rob: 00:31:20

Because you can't just say that.

Rob: 00:31:22

You can't just say, Hey because think about it, right?

Rob: 00:31:25

We've been brought up on so much information.

Rob: 00:31:28

Everybody's telling us something.

Rob: 00:31:30

The internet is telling us something.

Rob: 00:31:31

The articles are telling us something.

Rob: 00:31:33

Muse, our influencers, everybody's telling us something.

Rob: 00:31:37

But we want to feel this sort of presence and this level of being seen that we

Rob: 00:31:42

sometimes don't know how to communicate.

Rob: 00:31:44

But I think that we don't know how to communicate because it's

Rob: 00:31:46

also been left out of the stories.

Rob: 00:31:48

We've been only taught the cherry on top.

Rob: 00:31:50

What I love to do is, hey, let's go and let's go experience this in person.

Rob: 00:31:55

Let's go experience that fear and the nervousness and all

Rob: 00:31:58

that stuff, because you realize afterwards that you're totally fine.

Rob: 00:32:02

You're fine.

Rob: 00:32:03

But for a parent or somebody older to just.

Rob: 00:32:06

Because Simon Sinek will say it, and I understand he can't hang out

Rob: 00:32:08

with each of us and teaches these lessons, but as someone that's maybe

Rob: 00:32:12

dealing with this responsibility of I feel like I have to do something.

Rob: 00:32:16

How do I speak to a Gen Zer?

Rob: 00:32:18

Challenge them, go take them outside, connect them back with the truth.

Rob: 00:32:22

Because, I think there is this This comfort, that we are all prescribed, but

Rob: 00:32:29

only because people are buying into it.

Rob: 00:32:31

So Gen Zers, we get into the the market landscape, and we're being

Rob: 00:32:34

advertised to, we're being advertised what works, these marketing companies

Rob: 00:32:39

and these technology companies didn't get their research out of nowhere.

Rob: 00:32:42

They know that these things work.

Rob: 00:32:44

As we're being advertised, we're being given all this information.

Rob: 00:32:47

We just want to feel something real.

Rob: 00:32:49

And I think that things flip on their head when you just

Rob: 00:32:54

bring people back to the truth.

Rob: 00:32:55

Now, I think that big part of the conversation is again that

Rob: 00:32:59

people are just trying their best and that it's all love and, we're

Rob: 00:33:03

all just trying to be protected.

Rob: 00:33:05

Bye.

Rob: 00:33:06

If you are protecting me from the truth by hiding the truth, that's dangerous.

Rob: 00:33:12

That's real dangerous.

Rob: 00:33:13

And I think that's where you have kids spiral and break rules on purpose and

Rob: 00:33:19

go crazy because they feel so isolated.

Rob: 00:33:22

Could you imagine what would happen if you put a chimpanzee inside

Rob: 00:33:26

of a hospital room for too long?

Rob: 00:33:29

It would go insane.

Rob: 00:33:30

So it feels like spiritually and mentally, sometimes people put us

Rob: 00:33:34

through these things for our protection.

Rob: 00:33:36

But yeah it's, I think it's just, bringing us back to the truth in a way

Rob: 00:33:41

that, almost shows us respect like, Hey, you can handle the full lesson.

Rob: 00:33:45

Now I'm starting to, I think I'm starting to understand.

Sandy: 00:33:48

Gen Z training with Rob McPhillips, welcome guys.

Rob: 00:33:51

So I suppose we grew up with we grew up television, but it was very limited.

Rob: 00:33:55

And we grew up probably with books and we grew up with.

Rob: 00:33:59

systems and structures that we fitted in.

Rob: 00:34:02

So there's the industrial revolution, there's all these kind

Rob: 00:34:04

of structures, people go to a job.

Rob: 00:34:06

And what's happened since I, entered the old world of work and that kind of

Rob: 00:34:12

thing, is we've had all social media.

Rob: 00:34:15

We've had an explosion of entertainment.

Rob: 00:34:17

I grew up with, there was three TV channels then became four, then became

Rob: 00:34:22

five and we thought five was a lot and then suddenly you get satellite

Rob: 00:34:25

TV, which is, 500 channels I

Sandy: 00:34:30

remember that too, by the

Rob: 00:34:31

way.

Rob: 00:34:32

Oh, wow.

Rob: 00:34:32

But your generation has grown up with.

Rob: 00:34:35

Netflix on demand video, social media.

Rob: 00:34:39

You've also grown up with technology.

Rob: 00:34:40

And, I'm guessing you had phones at school.

Rob: 00:34:44

All right.

Rob: 00:34:44

2011 is probably well,

Sandy: 00:34:46

And I think this is good.

Sandy: 00:34:47

Good to bring this up.

Sandy: 00:34:48

I think Gen Z truth be told, I don't think we have to worry

Sandy: 00:34:50

too much about Gen Z, right?

Sandy: 00:34:51

I was born 1998.

Sandy: 00:34:53

So when I was five, when I was six, seven flip phones were out, so I saw the natural

Sandy: 00:34:58

progression of flip phones to smartphones.

Sandy: 00:35:01

Like I lost my mind to when Blackberry Blackberries were out sidekicks were out.

Sandy: 00:35:06

And then all of a sudden you had a full phone.

Sandy: 00:35:08

No buttons.

Sandy: 00:35:09

It was all touch that blew my mind.

Sandy: 00:35:11

I think what we definitely have to be very careful and worried

Sandy: 00:35:14

about is the kids growing up now.

Sandy: 00:35:16

The kids that quite literally are growing up with Netflix and YouTube.

Sandy: 00:35:20

The kids that are quite literally three, four years old watching YouTube all day.

Sandy: 00:35:25

Those are the ones that are quite literally growing up with this stuff.

Sandy: 00:35:28

When I was living in the Dominican Republic, we had an antenna for the TV.

Sandy: 00:35:33

When you had those few channels, I remember when you wanted to watch a

Sandy: 00:35:36

movie, you had to wait till it was being streamed on the YouTube channel, or when

Sandy: 00:35:41

Netflix and Blockbuster did come out, you had to order the CDs and you had to wait

Sandy: 00:35:44

for them to come into mail and all these different things, if you wanted to use a

Sandy: 00:35:48

computer, you had to go to the library.

Sandy: 00:35:50

Things like that.

Sandy: 00:35:50

So I remember things like that.

Sandy: 00:35:51

I think Gen Z, we're good.

Sandy: 00:35:53

There is this rebellious nature that we all have where we want to improve things.

Sandy: 00:35:56

But, be careful with the kids.

Sandy: 00:35:58

I was working with these clients where their kids were on their

Sandy: 00:36:02

free time drawing these demonic beings and cartoon characters.

Sandy: 00:36:07

That they were watching on these shows.

Sandy: 00:36:10

So it's I think Gen Z, I, of course, we're making the news right now because we're at

Sandy: 00:36:14

that age, where we're getting publicity, where we're learning ourselves and we're

Sandy: 00:36:18

being our, we're being rock stars, which I think every generation goes through.

Sandy: 00:36:23

But let's be very clear that I'm worried as a gen zero of the kids

Sandy: 00:36:27

growing up now because everything has to be like, oh man it's almost

Sandy: 00:36:32

like the addiction that we have.

Sandy: 00:36:33

And I don't know if you're a coffee drinker.

Sandy: 00:36:35

I need coffee.

Sandy: 00:36:36

I gotta go make coffee.

Sandy: 00:36:37

It's have that now with entertainment.

Sandy: 00:36:39

If I'm curious to see what happens when the kids these days get depressed.

Sandy: 00:36:43

Like, how are they gonna handle depression?

Sandy: 00:36:45

How are they gonna handle these difficulties when their brains

Sandy: 00:36:48

and neuropathways are trained to have a solution come to them

Sandy: 00:36:53

in five seconds, 10 seconds?

Sandy: 00:36:55

Yeah.

Sandy: 00:36:55

, I'm worried about that too, Rob.

Rob: 00:36:57

YeaH.

Rob: 00:36:58

you are gonna experience that in 10 years.

Rob: 00:37:00

But what I'm seeing though, if you've got all that social media.

Rob: 00:37:04

It's also at a time when , the media is much more suspicious, there's

Rob: 00:37:09

much more conspiracy theories now because they're given voice,

Rob: 00:37:12

there's much more polarization.

Rob: 00:37:14

So what you've really got is a generation that doesn't trust what they've been told.

Rob: 00:37:20

A generation that's been exposed to experience, a generation that

Rob: 00:37:24

have had things were more scarce before, so they don't really want

Rob: 00:37:29

things, they want experience.

Rob: 00:37:31

And I think when you're talking about, fear and don't try and limit me.

Rob: 00:37:35

It's really about if your main way of growing up, 16 to 20 has

Rob: 00:37:42

been watching this people live their life on social media, you're

Rob: 00:37:47

there like, I want to do that.

Rob: 00:37:49

I want to be told and 10 years time.

Rob: 00:37:51

I want to be able to do that.

Rob: 00:37:52

It's I want to do it now.

Rob: 00:37:53

And there, there is you're about the age of my daughters.

Rob: 00:37:57

And they've grown up with YouTubers and they talk about these YouTubers and that

Rob: 00:38:01

and it's they, for them, it's personal and it's like they're people they know.

Rob: 00:38:06

So I think you've grown up going they're doing this, they're doing this.

Rob: 00:38:10

I could do that, let me out of here.

Rob: 00:38:12

And so maybe there's.

Rob: 00:38:14

I think maybe that's what you're talking about is in terms of take me

Rob: 00:38:17

to the river is give me the experience.

Rob: 00:38:21

Let me have it.

Rob: 00:38:22

And let me make sense of it.

Sandy: 00:38:24

Yeah, let me feel, I think, maybe.

Sandy: 00:38:26

And I'm curious too, because, I have a niece, I'm the youngest of three.

Sandy: 00:38:31

But I've taken on a lot of responsibility my entire life.

Sandy: 00:38:33

I've always felt like a parent, even though I'm not, but obviously

Sandy: 00:38:36

it's different when you've nurtured.

Sandy: 00:38:38

A human being to life, which congratulations, by the

Sandy: 00:38:42

way, getting a child to 25.

Sandy: 00:38:45

Around that age is an accomplishment.

Sandy: 00:38:47

So congratulations.

Sandy: 00:38:48

But is there this level of, I worked so hard to give you these opportunities.

Sandy: 00:38:53

Don't mess it up.

Sandy: 00:38:54

Don't take, I've tried to raise us up here.

Sandy: 00:38:57

Don't take us back down here.

Sandy: 00:38:59

I understand there must be a level of that.

Sandy: 00:39:01

But, we have to trust what's going on.

Sandy: 00:39:05

We have to trust nature, almost like natural selection.

Sandy: 00:39:08

If you look at the influencer marketing space, by the way, It's

Sandy: 00:39:13

not all bad, of course, there are a lot of influencers out there making

Sandy: 00:39:16

a lot of money, but they earned it.

Sandy: 00:39:18

People aren't they're just giving them their views for no reason.

Sandy: 00:39:21

They've earned it.

Sandy: 00:39:22

And the reason why they make so much money is because the people

Sandy: 00:39:25

watching also purchase from them.

Sandy: 00:39:27

And then advertisers want to do business with the influencers

Sandy: 00:39:30

because they generate cash flow.

Sandy: 00:39:32

So it's not all bad, but if you do have someone looking up at the stars

Sandy: 00:39:38

and saying, I want to do that too, don't tell them to be realistic,

Sandy: 00:39:42

because you've essentially taken them to a place where they can see

Sandy: 00:39:45

beyond you, that's worth celebrating.

Sandy: 00:39:48

If it scares you good, this is what you signed up for.

Sandy: 00:39:51

Being a parent is scary.

Sandy: 00:39:53

I think we just need reminders and we need to respect the younger generation a

Sandy: 00:39:57

little bit more and say, you know what?

Sandy: 00:40:00

I have to trust you.

Sandy: 00:40:01

There's a word, a phrase I remind myself a lot of based off of what I've

Sandy: 00:40:06

experienced, which is lead by example, as I'm leading the next generation, I lead by

Sandy: 00:40:10

example, I'm not going to be a hypocrite.

Sandy: 00:40:13

Of course, things might change and I am going to have this podcast

Sandy: 00:40:16

here to keep me accountable, but I remind myself every day that.

Sandy: 00:40:20

If I do want to have children, it's not for the sake of trying

Sandy: 00:40:23

to control who they choose to be.

Sandy: 00:40:25

I don't think that's what we're here to do as a civilization.

Sandy: 00:40:28

I think we're here to do something together as millions.

Sandy: 00:40:31

And if we're here to do something together as millions we have to be

Sandy: 00:40:35

very careful of the rules we set up.

Sandy: 00:40:39

If I say that I can put my mind to anything and I can do anything

Sandy: 00:40:43

is when it comes to achieving.

Sandy: 00:40:45

financial success or vitality, prosperity.

Sandy: 00:40:49

Then when it comes time for my kid to do the same thing, I

Sandy: 00:40:53

can't tell them to be realistic.

Sandy: 00:40:55

There's a lot of movies that teach you this kind of stuff too.

Sandy: 00:40:57

Happy feet one and happy feet two.

Sandy: 00:40:58

If you ever want to go watch it, it teaches you these lessons.

Sandy: 00:41:01

But we all have to accept that the world is a scary place and Jen's years.

Sandy: 00:41:06

There's, like you said, a lot of information coming out, and a lot

Sandy: 00:41:08

of the information that comes out, we also feel like we can't trust.

Sandy: 00:41:11

I think that as much as we, get frustrated by youthful energy,

Sandy: 00:41:18

we also have to honor it.

Sandy: 00:41:20

Because at the end of the day, whether we like it or not, Gen Zers

Sandy: 00:41:24

will be the decision makers one day.

Sandy: 00:41:26

So we can't just yell at them and tell them that they're doing things wrong.

Sandy: 00:41:30

We have to say, wait a second you get what you tolerate.

Sandy: 00:41:32

Your message, right?

Sandy: 00:41:34

If Gen Zers are acting a fool and it's making us a little uncomfortable, maybe

Sandy: 00:41:37

it's just, a matter of us just doing a little bit of shadow work and figuring

Sandy: 00:41:40

out why it's making us uncomfortable.

Sandy: 00:41:42

But it's also understanding whether or not we're being too controlling

Sandy: 00:41:46

and we're not surrendering, whether that be God or the lessons of life.

Sandy: 00:41:51

Everything's changing drastically.

Sandy: 00:41:53

AI, everything, dating, everything, right?

Sandy: 00:41:55

Having children is a tough conversation.

Sandy: 00:41:57

There's chemicals and water and you're, the banks are lying to you.

Sandy: 00:42:01

Imagine trying to think about putting together a family in these times.

Sandy: 00:42:05

It's not easy.

Sandy: 00:42:06

And so there is this inner revolt.

Sandy: 00:42:10

And it looks messy sometimes.

Sandy: 00:42:12

So give us a little bit of time, give us a little bit of time, like

Sandy: 00:42:15

we're trying to make sense of this all and it's a lot to make sense of.

Rob: 00:42:20

Okay, I'd just like to get your advice.

Rob: 00:42:22

So there's this natural conflict.

Rob: 00:42:24

So we talked about, Simon Simnick saying it because a lot

Rob: 00:42:27

of businesses are saying it.

Rob: 00:42:29

For example, Pete, someone's someone say.

Rob: 00:42:33

Let me take the role of someone who's a leader and they spent 20, 25 years and

Rob: 00:42:38

they work their way up and they work their way up through the old way of

Rob: 00:42:42

they've put in the time they've followed the rules, they fit it in they've

Rob: 00:42:46

got up, they've become the leader.

Rob: 00:42:48

So they have taken on a young Gen Z millennial.

Rob: 00:42:52

He's got an entirely different view growing up with a different view,

Rob: 00:42:56

wants to be fulfilled whatever.

Rob: 00:42:59

So there's a conflict between the person who's trying to run a profitable business

Rob: 00:43:05

who may not be like it's not apparent.

Rob: 00:43:08

So they're not bothered about, that they want, they've hired someone, they want to

Rob: 00:43:11

result, they want to keep the business.

Rob: 00:43:15

Profitable they want the person to be productive, whatever they want them to

Rob: 00:43:19

fit into the business model, but they have, how do we resolve those conflicts?

Sandy: 00:43:24

It's a great question.

Sandy: 00:43:24

And I also want you to know that this is something I figure out

Sandy: 00:43:27

on a daily basis too, right?

Sandy: 00:43:29

I read a lot of books on Autonomous leadership.

Sandy: 00:43:32

I just finished reading entrepreneurial operating system.

Sandy: 00:43:35

There's a reason why a lot of leaders to focus out on

Sandy: 00:43:37

psychology and systems, right?

Sandy: 00:43:39

We're trying to figure out how to keep our organizations growing.

Sandy: 00:43:42

Cash flow is oxygen, right?

Sandy: 00:43:44

And when you spend years and years trying to make a system work.

Sandy: 00:43:48

Where you can actually get sleep, and you're not anxious, and

Sandy: 00:43:51

you can actually get some rest.

Sandy: 00:43:52

You gotta grow, you gotta hire someone, and then you gotta adapt to the economy.

Sandy: 00:43:56

So sometimes, whether you hire this younger person for their new skill

Sandy: 00:44:00

set that is popular in the industry or whatever, it can be a little scary when

Sandy: 00:44:05

they come with all these new ideas, and they want to change so much, right?

Sandy: 00:44:09

I think that it's just a matter of putting together a an agreement, right?

Sandy: 00:44:16

Everything happens in, in, in terms of agreements.

Sandy: 00:44:18

Like for example, I just started a new position and I know that every ingredient

Sandy: 00:44:23

that I put into this agreement, week one, week two, week three, it all matters.

Sandy: 00:44:28

What I would highly recommend to anyone hiring a lot of these energetic, creative,

Sandy: 00:44:33

visionary, people, Is to be very clear on what you want, there's and by

Sandy: 00:44:39

the way, there are traditional books.

Sandy: 00:44:40

So Dan Sullivan, he's been in the space now for a long time.

Sandy: 00:44:43

He's 70 years old.

Sandy: 00:44:44

He just wrote a book called who not how speaks about how when you want

Sandy: 00:44:48

something done better than what you can see, you have to hire the

Sandy: 00:44:51

who and let them handle the how.

Sandy: 00:44:53

So are you hiring this younger person and are you qualified enough to tell

Sandy: 00:44:57

them how they should be doing things?

Sandy: 00:44:59

Or are they the most qualified to to be the ones to tell

Sandy: 00:45:02

themselves how to do things?

Sandy: 00:45:03

I think just be very clear on what you're asking them to do.

Sandy: 00:45:06

If you're asking them to be an assistant, if you're asking them to

Sandy: 00:45:09

be a project manager, a social media manager, whatever it is, be very

Sandy: 00:45:15

clear on what you need from them.

Sandy: 00:45:16

And also update yourself on what the current work landscape looks like.

Sandy: 00:45:22

Things have pivoted since the pandemic, not just for Gen Zers, for everyone.

Sandy: 00:45:27

There's a whole work from home conversation and there's a big

Sandy: 00:45:30

fulfillment conversation, right?

Sandy: 00:45:32

Just update yourself because it's, it works.

Sandy: 00:45:35

I've been, I work with Gen Zers.

Sandy: 00:45:36

We're very productive we're a very productive team.

Sandy: 00:45:40

But only because, first of all, let's be honest, not every Gen Zer, just

Sandy: 00:45:43

because they're a Gen Zer and they're young, is right for your business.

Sandy: 00:45:46

One thing I've learned is hire slow, fire, fast.

Sandy: 00:45:48

Take your due diligence trying to hire someone, make sure they're a culture fit.

Sandy: 00:45:52

But at the end of the day, nobody wants to feel limited.

Sandy: 00:45:54

If somebody's excited and they got vision nobody wants to feel limited.

Sandy: 00:45:58

I think people want, especially Jones years, we want true,

Sandy: 00:46:02

meaningful relationships.

Sandy: 00:46:04

It's not just about the money for me, at least if, you and I are doing

Sandy: 00:46:08

good business together, but you're not concerned about how my family

Sandy: 00:46:12

is doing and you're not asking me with truth and authenticity, then.

Sandy: 00:46:17

Then why are we working together?

Sandy: 00:46:18

There's a lot to I've realized from all the technology that's coming out in

Sandy: 00:46:23

decentralized autonomous organizations.

Sandy: 00:46:25

There's a conversation that a lot of technology enthusiasts are studying right

Sandy: 00:46:30

now because they think it will be a big conversation of what the world 10 years.

Sandy: 00:46:35

So when you piece all these things together, you just have to understand that

Sandy: 00:46:40

you and I learned this from the company we worked with last year again, they had

Sandy: 00:46:43

over 5000 employees, and they've been in business for 25 years selling coffee.

Sandy: 00:46:47

Humans can't be engineered.

Sandy: 00:46:49

We're not robots.

Sandy: 00:46:51

As you're hiring Gen Zers, know that you're hiring a person, know that you're

Sandy: 00:46:54

hiring a brother, a sister , a son, a daughter, know that you're hiring somebody

Sandy: 00:47:00

that's navigating a lot of things.

Sandy: 00:47:02

And also know and trust that those things can make your organization better.

Sandy: 00:47:06

When I had this holistic conversation with my team and we implemented

Sandy: 00:47:10

core values and I made the culture stronger and I communicated to the

Sandy: 00:47:15

team that I truly care about them.

Sandy: 00:47:17

And that it's not about how many hours that they can put in.

Sandy: 00:47:19

It's about how much impact they make.

Sandy: 00:47:22

It made the entire place a better environment, but that's what I need.

Sandy: 00:47:27

That's what I need for my business because we run a social media marketing business.

Sandy: 00:47:31

It might be different for other people.

Sandy: 00:47:33

Don't just hire a young person because they have less experience and they're

Sandy: 00:47:36

gonna be more affordable, be very clear on what you need and understand

Sandy: 00:47:41

that, Gen Zers we care about all that.

Sandy: 00:47:44

We care, we want a relationship.

Sandy: 00:47:46

We want a little bit more meaning so I think it's just clarity.

Sandy: 00:47:50

Be very clear on first of all, what you need and what you're

Sandy: 00:47:54

asking this person to do.

Sandy: 00:47:56

And if you want them to come in and make the workplace a better place.

Sandy: 00:48:03

You have to listen to their ideas.

Sandy: 00:48:04

I've learned that a lot too.

Sandy: 00:48:06

This year is you got to let your leaders make mistakes.

Sandy: 00:48:09

You got to let your leaders lead.

Sandy: 00:48:10

So if you're hiring a leader, if you're hiring, and I personally believe

Sandy: 00:48:14

every person in the organization is a leader, they all create the culture.

Sandy: 00:48:18

Just know, Gen Zers, we got a lot of ideas.

Sandy: 00:48:20

Like you did say, around the high school time, we did grow

Sandy: 00:48:23

up with a lot of technology.

Sandy: 00:48:24

So we got a lot of ideas.

Sandy: 00:48:26

We got a lot of information.

Sandy: 00:48:27

Now.

Sandy: 00:48:28

Just because they're Gen Z doesn't mean you tolerate arrogance.

Sandy: 00:48:31

I don't tolerate arrogance either.

Sandy: 00:48:33

Just know what you want, know what you need and be very clear with the Gen Z er

Sandy: 00:48:37

about it cause it can work, it just might not be what you need, but don't look for a

Sandy: 00:48:41

Gen Z er just because they're affordable, cause they're gonna want, relationships.

Sandy: 00:48:45

They're going to want someone that they can trust.

Sandy: 00:48:47

Even if you look at what Gary Vaynerchuk has been teaching jab, right hook,

Sandy: 00:48:51

you give, and then you make an ask.

Sandy: 00:48:52

If our customers want this, our employees want this.

Sandy: 00:48:55

Gen Zers want to feel something from their employers.

Sandy: 00:48:59

And if you're not ready to give that, and that's not your model,

Sandy: 00:49:02

then that's just the truth.

Sandy: 00:49:04

Know what you need, and it might cost a little bit more, but at

Sandy: 00:49:07

least there's synergy and alignment.

Sandy: 00:49:10

If you're hiring a Gen Zer, you're essentially thinking, and you should

Sandy: 00:49:13

be at least, Can this person work in my company for the next 25 years

Sandy: 00:49:16

and make it a better establishment?

Rob: 00:49:18

For me, I think that's really the direction that business

Rob: 00:49:21

has to be for all generations.

Rob: 00:49:23

It's really about connecting more to people, releasing more from people.

Rob: 00:49:28

And that's the way you do it.

Rob: 00:49:29

You create a bond, you build relationships you unite people.

Rob: 00:49:34

This has been fascinating.

Rob: 00:49:35

Now, if if there's ongoing conflict, so if we're talking about generation

Rob: 00:49:39

what have you learned about navigating that conflict from the side of someone

Rob: 00:49:45

new into the workplace, who's maybe in somewhere where there's more fear, that

Rob: 00:49:49

they need to fit into what tips have you learned for navigating that successfully?

Sandy: 00:49:55

Yeah, it's courage and communication all the way through

Sandy: 00:49:58

because misunderstandings are deadly.

Sandy: 00:50:01

And there's a lot of physical trauma that a lot of people don't calculate

Sandy: 00:50:04

into the conversation as well.

Sandy: 00:50:06

You, I could be looking at we could be working in the worst space together.

Sandy: 00:50:10

If you react to me physically, and this could just be the way that you look at

Sandy: 00:50:15

me or the way that you say something, the tone of your voice, it might

Sandy: 00:50:19

trigger a memory of mine from an older.

Sandy: 00:50:24

Traumatic experience, and I might not know that, and now

Sandy: 00:50:27

I might associate you as evil.

Sandy: 00:50:29

Rob's an evil person, because of my past memory.

Sandy: 00:50:32

So one thing that helps me navigate everything is just assume

Sandy: 00:50:34

it's a misunderstanding, and be courageous and clear it up.

Sandy: 00:50:37

I've learned that when you mitigate the time between a misunderstanding

Sandy: 00:50:41

and the time you speak up about it, it helps retrain people anyways.

Sandy: 00:50:45

So as you do enter a new space, and a new team, and you want it to

Sandy: 00:50:50

be a high functioning performing team, Value communication.

Sandy: 00:50:54

There's one thing I've also done recently in my meetings that helps

Sandy: 00:50:57

a lot, which is a level 10 meeting, which I've adopted from the EOS system.

Sandy: 00:51:02

And it's essentially rating your meetings, it's staying on track.

Sandy: 00:51:06

It's knowing the goals and being very clear on where we're headed because if you

Sandy: 00:51:11

and I are on a team together and we both have the same goal and we're both clashing

Sandy: 00:51:17

on figuring out how to achieve this goal.

Sandy: 00:51:19

Isn't that a great thing?

Sandy: 00:51:20

That's a good thing.

Sandy: 00:51:21

We're both passionate about what we're trying to solve.

Sandy: 00:51:23

So I think it's just communication.

Sandy: 00:51:25

I think we need to set systems and protocols within ourselves

Sandy: 00:51:29

to communicate better.

Sandy: 00:51:30

And teams can implement that and have that already a part of their infrastructure

Sandy: 00:51:36

when new team members come in.

Sandy: 00:51:37

If you are a new team member going into the team, then implement

Sandy: 00:51:41

that communication and courage.

Sandy: 00:51:43

That's one of our core values is courage.

Sandy: 00:51:46

Because we know that communication can be hard.

Sandy: 00:51:49

Speaking up about something can be hard.

Sandy: 00:51:52

So just make sure that there's clarity.

Sandy: 00:51:54

Misunderstandings are deadly.

Sandy: 00:51:55

Assumptions are deadly.

Sandy: 00:51:57

If we're all here for the same common goal, then passion should be celebrated.

Sandy: 00:52:03

But there shouldn't be arguments.

Sandy: 00:52:05

Things should be clear.

Sandy: 00:52:06

And if you find out that your team isn't as passionate about the common goals, then

Sandy: 00:52:13

again, maybe it's just not a culture fit.

Sandy: 00:52:14

So I would just say value communication and clarity speak to your team leader.

Sandy: 00:52:20

And ask them about, how does the team like to communicate?

Sandy: 00:52:23

How does the team take constructive criticism?

Sandy: 00:52:26

How do I best deliver constructive criticism?

Sandy: 00:52:29

Do we have a timed slots in the calendar where we give constructive criticism?

Sandy: 00:52:35

Candor, moments of candor are huge.

Sandy: 00:52:38

It's great.

Sandy: 00:52:39

It's all great.

Sandy: 00:52:39

When there's mutual understanding that we're all here to grow and

Sandy: 00:52:42

perform, then the misunderstandings just make you stronger.

Sandy: 00:52:46

Like you mentioned at the beginning relationships, right?

Sandy: 00:52:48

You don't just swipe left and get married.

Sandy: 00:52:50

You don't just fall in love and it's always easy.

Sandy: 00:52:52

So it's the same thing, which is why everything we've said in this

Sandy: 00:52:55

entire conversation is going to make the world a better place.

Sandy: 00:52:57

Because we're learning about how complicated it is to be a civilization.

Sandy: 00:53:01

You and I sit here, we think about the conversation of a parent and a child.

Sandy: 00:53:05

You think about the relationship of a wife and a husband and

Sandy: 00:53:09

everything in between, right?

Sandy: 00:53:10

But it all adds up to family, community, cities, or towns, cities, states,

Sandy: 00:53:17

countries, civilization, right?

Sandy: 00:53:21

So what we're really trying to figure out here is how to be a

Sandy: 00:53:23

growing and prospering civilization.

Sandy: 00:53:26

And the only way we can do that is through communication and alignment.

Sandy: 00:53:29

So it all comes back to me and just, clarity, do I know what

Sandy: 00:53:34

the 90 day goal is for this team?

Sandy: 00:53:36

Do I know why it matters?

Sandy: 00:53:38

Do I know that so and is currently maybe living out of his car because he

Sandy: 00:53:44

just recently went through a divorce?

Sandy: 00:53:46

Is vulnerability part of the conversation and is there clarity

Sandy: 00:53:49

around that kind of stuff?

Sandy: 00:53:50

Every team is so different.

Sandy: 00:53:52

There just needs to be clarity, it needs to be spoken about so I would highly

Sandy: 00:53:56

recommend to anyone joining a new team is just communicate and ask questions

Sandy: 00:54:00

and if you're part of a team where you find out that's not part of it, and that

Sandy: 00:54:04

people are just saying, hey, I'm just here to clock in and clock out, that might

Sandy: 00:54:07

not be a position you're interested in,

Rob: 00:54:09

unless it is.

Rob: 00:54:10

Great advice.

Rob: 00:54:11

Okay, thank you.

Rob: 00:54:13

So if anyone wanted to reach out to you so what might they want to reach

Rob: 00:54:17

out to you for, and where would be the best way for them to find out more

Sandy: 00:54:22

about you?

Sandy: 00:54:23

For sure.

Sandy: 00:54:23

Yeah as solutions in the marketplace, we offer three main big ones.

Sandy: 00:54:28

Number one is, do you want us to be in a married relationship with you?

Sandy: 00:54:32

And do you want us to give us our all to help you and your brand?

Sandy: 00:54:37

That's our kind of all in automation, social media automation, marketing

Sandy: 00:54:41

automation, we'll create a system around you that you enjoy.

Sandy: 00:54:45

That communicates to people authentically and it generates business.

Sandy: 00:54:49

Number two would be just leadership consulting, the in between stuff.

Sandy: 00:54:53

How do you adapt to the next generation?

Sandy: 00:54:56

How do you adapt to the new tools and softwares coming out?

Sandy: 00:55:00

That kind of stuff takes time.

Sandy: 00:55:02

It's like learning how to dance.

Sandy: 00:55:03

I can't just show you once we got to practice, right?

Sandy: 00:55:05

So we offer leadership consulting, and then we also offer just custom orders.

Sandy: 00:55:09

We're a growing agency.

Sandy: 00:55:10

We're only three years old.

Sandy: 00:55:12

We have a lot of ideas.

Sandy: 00:55:13

If you like the passion and the heart that we bring to the table in our

Sandy: 00:55:18

projects, and you have an idea and you're like, Hey, Sandy, I want to

Sandy: 00:55:23

throw a jet ski convention once a year.

Sandy: 00:55:27

And I want to invite them something crazy.

Sandy: 00:55:29

Everybody has crazy ideas.

Sandy: 00:55:31

We have custom orders.

Sandy: 00:55:32

You can reach out to us at GoAnomalous.

Sandy: 00:55:34

com.

Sandy: 00:55:35

Anomalous is the root word for anomaly, so we're all about deviating

Sandy: 00:55:38

from the norm and helping you achieve your passion because there's

Sandy: 00:55:43

room for everyone to be fulfilled.

Sandy: 00:55:45

and to be sovereign.

Sandy: 00:55:47

Of course, I'm not saying about everybody can be happy, but everybody

Sandy: 00:55:50

can have joy and fulfillment.

Sandy: 00:55:53

And so we want to see if we can do that.

Sandy: 00:55:55

So head over to goanomolous.com.

Sandy: 00:55:56

You can see a little bit about us, scroll down all the way to the

Sandy: 00:55:59

bottom, and there's a contact us form

Rob: 00:56:01

and reach out.

Rob: 00:56:02

Thank you, Sandy.

Rob: 00:56:02

That's been fascinating.

Sandy: 00:56:04

Yeah, it's a great conversation.

Sandy: 00:56:06

I hear it a lot now too.

Sandy: 00:56:08

But I love that we're all speaking about it because we all care.

Sandy: 00:56:11

And so let's understand that, right?

Sandy: 00:56:13

We're speaking about this because we care.

Sandy: 00:56:15

If we establish that we all just care about the situation and we're trying

Sandy: 00:56:19

to improve it, we can all communicate.

Sandy: 00:56:21

So let's sit down and let's talk about it.

Sandy: 00:56:23

I appreciate it conversation.

Rob: 00:56:25

Exactly.

Rob: 00:56:25

That's really what I'm trying to do with teams of all generations.

Rob: 00:56:29

I love that.

Rob: 00:56:29

Thank you so much for your time.

Sandy: 00:56:31

No, I appreciate the invitation.

Sandy: 00:56:33

It was a great conversation.